thing. And then, you know, are we going to be hindered by people that utilize this, that won&#8217;t you can&#8217;t buy tickets unless you check that box and log in to the WordPress back end.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:04:30&nbsp; So there were a lot of unknowns. But beside all of that, we we kind of started having conversations adjacent to this anyway, and thinking it would be cool to have a conference that wasn&#8217;t so platform specific and that didn&#8217;t, you know, like, WordPress is cool and designers come, but they have to be familiar with WordPress. This thing allows any platform, any technology, any designer, marketing agencies, you know, whatever. We&#8217;ve got so many different various people that would never probably come to a WordCamp, because maybe they don&#8217;t build on. We got a guy that&#8217;s building a CMS, I think, in one of the talks. I believe so. So nothing against WordCamp, you know, we we hope to keep that going here in the Buffalo community. But we, you know, we still have our WordCamp Meetup group that that goes once a month. But this is an exciting opportunity to do something different. And we didn&#8217;t know how it was going to be received. But, you know, Tim, again, got the, you know, just started like, emailing everybody and, and it&#8217;s like, okay, well, I guess we&#8217;re doing this thing. So, you know, formed a, an organization and started putting it together. And it&#8217;s going to be a great event. So Tim can talk about, like, the venue and all of that fun stuff that&#8217;s happening.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:05:54&nbsp; I also want to know where the name came from. So I want you to dive into that at some point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:05:58&nbsp; To sort of the real story.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:05:59&nbsp; Yeah, yeah. Color Code itself is. I think the idea was we wanted to lean into both sides of the equation. And you know how it goes when you brainstorm like this. We had a ton of terrible ideas. We had some that other people already taken. We had some that were just straight up silly, but the Color Code, color art design, code tech, and it just kind of it&#8217;s, you know, alliteration, it all kind of works. So.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:06:25&nbsp; It sounds like a Dunkle thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:06:29&nbsp; He was part of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:06:30&nbsp; Yeah. He&#8217;s part. Yeah, we all definitely thought it&#8217;s one of those things where, like, the Slack channel and the Google Drive doc just goes crazy for like, two weeks, and then ultimately, you end up, okay. There&#8217;s a domain we could use for that. Let&#8217;s go for it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:06:42&nbsp; That&#8217;s what it came down to the domain.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:06:44&nbsp; Yeah, I think this is what everything comes down to when you name stuff. Now it&#8217;s is there a domain that you can register for it and then get an LLC or whatever. So Color Code was really meant to one have like a fun sound and really specifically just plainly say this is design and tech. And when you think about like the marketing world, that kind of factors into everything that we do for marketing too. So it&#8217;s all encompassing. And to John&#8217;s point or sorry, Ron&#8217;s point. It really allows us to branch out topic wise and technology wise. And we were talking about the venue, the Seneca One Tower in Buffalo is the most impressive building in the city from a size standpoint that stands over the city at like 33 floors or something like that. I&#8217;d say that City Hall is still probably the most impressive building, but the tower is amazing, but it&#8217;s also home to 43 North, which is one of the largest startup incubators in the country and runs one of the largest competitions in the country.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:07:41&nbsp; So there&#8217;s lots of startups there, and they all have marketing, tech, advanced, you know, promotion. So it really kind of fits the vibe of what that tower has tried to become under Douglas Development, which is sort of like a tech hub and an incubator hub. And MIT has invested in it for. Their, their tech department. So it it has a a great auditorium large breakout rooms for. And we planned on maybe having one good track, but we got so many speakers submissions and there were a lot of good talks. And we really did want to have a variety of topics, from design to development to marketing. And it ultimately ended up that we we had enough, to whittle it down, to whittle it down to three tracks, which was 20 speakers and 19 talks. We have one. The headline talk, is actually a two person talk in the auditorium at the end of the day, but, it really worked out. Well, we do have we have speakers coming from all over the East Coast.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:08:43&nbsp; We got sponsors at the national level. And to to Ron&#8217;s point, by making the event a little bit more inclusive to marketing and creative. We were able to pull a lot of local agency support to you on the sponsor side, because one of the goals was, we don&#8217;t need this to be a conference that makes money. We all have jobs. We all have agencies or freelance gigs. We wanted to create something that was still accessible for students and startup people, or just hobbyists even. So by getting the sponsorship, it allowed us to keep down the ticket costs. So the tickets are around what a typical WordCamp would be as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:09:25&nbsp; Nice. That makes it much, much more accessible for people, for sure. Especially when you do have people flying in from all over to attend and to speak there. I think.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:09:35&nbsp; Yeah. And it is still volunteer speaking at this point too. I mean, there&#8217;s a few sponsors that have speaking spots because it&#8217;s part of their sponsor level. But, the challenge to having a low ticket event is it has to be very community driven. So in that aspect, it is a lot like WordCamp. It&#8217;s just that the speakers are coming from such more diverse backgrounds now, and diverse topics, that it&#8217;s just interesting to see that there are other people in these industries that are willing to do volunteer speaking, too. So yeah, that&#8217;s that&#8217;s one. The other way, to their credit, to the speaker&#8217;s credit of being able to keep tickets, down in cost.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:10:13&nbsp; Yeah. I&#8217;m going to pull up the, the site so we can kind of talk a little bit through, first of all, who is the Bauhaus lover? Because the whole design seems very much in the Bauhaus arena.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:10:27&nbsp; Yeah. Which that&#8217;s my my art director at Luminous, John English. This is his brainchild.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:10:32&nbsp; I love it. It looks great. And, there&#8217;s downtown Buffalo, I recognize that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:10:37&nbsp; Yep. That that view right there is up main Street from the level that the event is going to be on at Seneca Tower.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:10:44&nbsp; Oh, nice. My daughter used to live right on Main Street there. So, Let&#8217;s see. So you have right now we are in the standard, so it&#8217;s only $40 to attend. And if you sign up after the 20th, it&#8217;s only $50. And you can do that with or without a t shirt for that extra $10. I see wings, of course. You gotta have wings. The venue looks phenomenal.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:11:08&nbsp; Yep that the tower.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:11:08&nbsp; And then there&#8217;s the schedule, which is, you know what everybody is always interested in seeing, like, who&#8217;s going to be here? Coffee in the lobby. Happy about that, for sure. You know, opening remarks as we call the event greeting here. And then you&#8217;ve got some, Tim, you and I are speaking at the same time. How did that happen?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:11:25&nbsp; Yeah, yeah, it&#8217;s the way the schedule works out when you have tracks like this, you have to balance and make sure that you don&#8217;t have any overlapping.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:11:33&nbsp; Topics. Absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:11:35&nbsp; Yeah. So there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s definitely like in the flex track, which is green when it&#8217;s heavily marketing or design related.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:11:40&nbsp; The other talks are more content and dev. Yeah. So, it was a hard balance when you have this many speakers. It&#8217;s like doing a wedding reception table seating.&nbsp; Figure out who has to be next to each other and who can&#8217;t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:11:55&nbsp; So you know, it is nice to go first thing though, because then you&#8217;ve ripped off the band aid and like the rest of the day, is your own, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:12:01&nbsp; So yeah. And set the tone for the day too, right. So a lot of strong people leading off each track and then go from there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:12:09&nbsp; And you&#8217;ve got Jen Witkowski, you&#8217;ve got Lucas Manuel Alvarado, Kaitlin Bolling, Jim Brandt, Femi Lewis. Oh, I love Femi. She&#8217;s awesome.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:12:17&nbsp; Christian Taylor&#8217;s coming too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:12:20&nbsp; Yeah. Christian from Craylor Media. Yep, I know Christian. He and I, met for the first time in person over at WordCamp Asia. Phenomenal. Doing so much work, in WordPress as far as news and sharing that kind of stuff. David Jackson.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:12:33&nbsp; Yeah, I&#8217;ll point out my buddy Jordan from Orlando, who no one&#8217;s ever probably heard of in this community, but, for the sports fans or even general marketing fans, he&#8217;s behind the viral campaigns for the Pop Tarts College Bowl Game that have happened the last couple of years with the crazy Pop Tart stuff that&#8217;s happened, and he&#8217;s doing a talk on, kind of how that idea went from a bar. The typical bar napkin story to actually, like, winning the business and being like, oh, we have to actually do something now and then. It turned out to be amazing. And it went viral, like for a week, two years in a row, two different campaings.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:13:09&nbsp; That&#8217;s very cool. I&#8217;m looking forward to hearing that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:13:12&nbsp; Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:13:12&nbsp; It’s just super meta just because Color Code happened on a bar napkin, it kind of. Yeah, as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:13:17&nbsp; I&#8217;m not surprised.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:13:18&nbsp; At Gene McCarthy&#8217;s over wings.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:13:21&nbsp; We got Coriano Harris. Hue Got This, I like that. And then, Aaron Reimann, who is down in Atlanta area, Robert DeVore, Levi Neuland, Tamara Zantell, and then the, I guess keynote?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:13:39&nbsp; Yeah kinda of. We wanted to bring everyone together at the end of the day in one room.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:13:43&nbsp; And Natalie Munger, with Utilizing Heuristics to Improve Design, I love that. And then you do have an after party, I think, too, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:13:49&nbsp; Yeah. Yeah. Ron, you want to talk about that? It&#8217;s in the works, but there&#8217;s it&#8217;s.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:13:53&nbsp; Yeah, we just kind of locked it down. Earlier today. So it&#8217;s going to be at, Pearl Street Brewery, which is a short walk away. You know, so, like, that&#8217;s kind of the cool thing about having it in downtown Buffalo, you know, the hotels that you&#8217;re going to stay at. You know, in our past, our WordCamps, you know, we had them in smaller communities and there weren&#8217;t really hotels. So you&#8217;re always just driving to the event or getting an Airbnb somewhere. Here like we&#8217;re in the heart of the city. Like our speaker networking event, you&#8217;re going to hop on on the train and take it right up Main Street, you know? So everything&#8217;s like, right right there, very accessible from.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:14:35&nbsp; Yeah, yeah. Here, I&#8217;ll give you a chance to thank your, your sponsors now too. So you&#8217;ve got WP Engine.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:14:42&nbsp; Yup WP Engine came in big and then you&#8217;ll see a bunch of the, the agencies and local colleges and stuff. And GoDaddy came in pretty big too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:14:49&nbsp; What&#8217;s FTN?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:14:51&nbsp; Oh that&#8217;s Agency Fifteen. That&#8217;s a local agency. Creative agency.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:14:54&nbsp; Nice. Luminous. Cani, and Douglas Development are collaborative.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:15:00&nbsp; So props to Douglas. That tower. We are using the venue at no cost.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette:&nbsp; That&#8217;s amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard: I mean, when you see, when you see the venue and you see what they&#8217;re offering us to be able to do at no cost. Another reason why the tickets are low.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:15:15&nbsp; I was going to say that&#8217;s definitely contributes to that low ticket price.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:15:18&nbsp; It&#8217;s insane. It&#8217;s such a good location and it will really facilitate like an amazing experience.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:15:24&nbsp; You got Mr. Smith, Parkway, Martin, Canisius University, Kinsta, and then Black Space Creative, Ninteen, Breakdance and Lighthouse Marketing. And if people are interested, they can absolutely subscribe to the newsletter.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:15:36&nbsp; Now you have I&#8217;m going to stop sharing because I think I&#8217;ve shown almost everything. You have listed it says Buffalo. But it looks like there&#8217;s room for more events, since the Buffalo is kind of like the subset of the site. Do you have plans at this point? Is it kind of leaving it open for future ideas?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:15:57&nbsp; It&#8217;s it&#8217;s leaving it open right now. There is a plan, but there are no plans.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:16:05&nbsp; We the concept of a concept of a plan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:16:08&nbsp; We have concepts of a plan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:16:09&nbsp; Definitely concepts of a plan. We have had interest expressed by various sponsors that they would sponsor further events, too. So this is one of those things where if we have a formula to build an event like this that operates in the same way that people are used to with WordCamps, and we can spice up the national circuit a little bit with a handful of events each year. We can build out our organizer network. And, you know, it doesn&#8217;t have to be a big project for us. We don&#8217;t have to take over the world at this point. It&#8217;s about variety. Even locally Michelle, you&#8217;re, you know, in Rochester, you&#8217;re very active in WordPress and have done WordCamp Rochester too. Do we really need two WordCamps 70 miles apart from each other?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:16:56&nbsp; Right. And we&#8217;ve talked about having we&#8217;ve talked about having WordCamp Western New York.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:17:00&nbsp; Or doing work on Western New York and combining efforts. Right. So, you know, like Ron said, it&#8217;s a very good opportunity to expand our horizons and take what we learned for ten years off of the WordCamp and then make something else that we can inject into potentially some different cities, too, but definitely in Western New York. And it&#8217;s something that complements WordCamp very well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:17:20&nbsp; Yeah, absolutely. So tickets are still on sale, which is great. So if people are interested, finding tickets, do you have. I didn&#8217;t look because I live local enough. Do you have information about hotel stays and things like that? Venue information on the site recommended hotels, anything like that? or should they just go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:17:38&nbsp; To those specifically there? But to Ron&#8217;s point. The venue is downtown and if you do a Google map search, you&#8217;re going to find hotels within one train stop or walking distance. And it&#8217;s buffalo. So, they aren&#8217;t super expensive. Although there is a Shane Gillis comedy act at the arena that night, so you never know who&#8217;s coming into town buying up these hotel rooms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:17:58&nbsp; I&#8217;ve never heard of that person, so maybe it&#8217;s not as big as I don&#8217;t know. So whenever we have an event here in Rochester, the question is, the question from outside is, will you have garbage plates? The question from inside is we&#8217;re not going to have garbage plates, are we? So the question in Buffalo is, will there be wings at the after party or what can people expect?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:18:22&nbsp; Yeah I, I believe so. We&#8217;re going to have food, you know, like food is always a part of these things. We haven&#8217;t finalized the menu yet, but you know, I generally like to provide some Buffalo staples, especially when I know we have people coming in from out of town.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:18:40&nbsp; I&#8217;m the same way as long as it&#8217;s mild, I. I love buffalo flavor. Not so much the. Not so much the spice. So to get back to something you said very early on, which was about pineapple on pizza. The pineapple on pizza question across the world is very similar to the Buffalo Western New York question of would you ever dip a wing in ranch?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard00:19:05&nbsp; No.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>&nbsp;Ron Brennan: No.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:19:06&nbsp; You lose your buffalo card if you do that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:19:09&nbsp; No, it&#8217;s always blue cheese.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:19:10&nbsp; Yeah. Blue cheese.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:19:11&nbsp; And if it&#8217;s done right, it&#8217;s either homemade blue cheese by the restaurant or if you have to, it&#8217;s Rudy&#8217;s blue cheese.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan: Yep.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:19:17&nbsp; There you go. I&#8217;m sure Rochester doesn&#8217;t have either of those. So we take what we can get, but I think most of the time it&#8217;s Marie&#8217;s blue cheese? But, it will do.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:19:26&nbsp; That&#8217;s another one. People use that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:19:29&nbsp; In a pinch. Right? So what else? What else do you want to talk about with the event? What can people look forward to? What are you most excited about? And, is the stress levels hitting yet?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:19:40&nbsp; it&#8217;s not super stressful. I mean, like, Fortunately, because we got started early, at this point, it&#8217;s just about making sure people know tickets are there, making sure they know the event exists. You know, we&#8217;ve been doing as much daily, almost, posting about speakers and sponsors and things on, on, you know, like X, Facebook, LinkedIn, all that good stuff. But one thing we haven&#8217;t talked about yet is the, Live graffiti art competition that will happen throughout the day in the lobby. Ben, who&#8217;s not here to talk about it. So we&#8217;ll do our best to do it for him. Is running essentially a large, sticky, note easel competition where we&#8217;ll have markers and things set up out in the lobby in a certain area and people throughout the day, if they want to either skip a session or between sessions. I don&#8217;t know what the official plan is for what will be done in terms of the art that&#8217;s done, but, do something and put it up on. Yes. Art battle. Art battle. 100%.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:20:39&nbsp; This is answering June’s question.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:20:41&nbsp; And it kind of. it kind of, vibes with, sticker that we have that we&#8217;re giving all the attendees and also the t-shirt option that we have, which is the Responsive by Design &#8211;&nbsp; Naughty by Nature reference. Yeah, I love that. there&#8217;s a little bit of this weird subtheme that we just decided to inject in that&#8217;s kind of like urban hip hop 80s. I don&#8217;t know, it just it seemed fun, so we just went for it. But there will be art battle stuff. There actually will be some interactive voting towards the second half of the day, and there will be three winners of gift gift cards at the end of the day, too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:21:17&nbsp; So can I make a suggestion for next year&#8217;s t-shirt?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Speaker 4 00:21:20&nbsp; Sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:21:21&nbsp; It&#8217;s black. It&#8217;s just black lettering on a white shirt, but it&#8217;s open lettering and it comes with Sharpie markers. So while you&#8217;re going through the day, you can color in your own Color Code shirt.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:21:32&nbsp; I like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:21:33&nbsp; Interactive.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:21:35&nbsp; Swag.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:21:36&nbsp; Yeah. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:21:36&nbsp; Interactive swag.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:21:37&nbsp; Somebody write that down.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard<strong> </strong>00:21:39&nbsp; We are. We&#8217;re getting a lot of good support from the sponsors too. So there will actually be things like swag bags when you check in. I mean, it&#8217;s just like we&#8217;ve gotten so much support from the people, that not only have done financial support, but they&#8217;re trying to make it so that the attendees have like a very top notch one day conference experience. So that&#8217;s I&#8217;m looking forward to that, to you and being able to provide that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:22:03&nbsp; I think it&#8217;s going to be cool to have, like we&#8217;re going to have and then really never happens here. I mean, occasionally we&#8217;ll see other other marketing agency people at networking events or whatever. And, you know, some of us talk or whatever on, on online. But to have this group of people that are there in the same room together. Like I&#8217;m excited about that. You know, just what kind of collaborations and what kind of ideas can spark from just those side conversations that, you know, we&#8217;re never really in all in the same room like this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:22:38&nbsp; Yeah. So does that mean the hallway track is going to be exciting too?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:22:42&nbsp; Hallway tracks are always exciting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:22:43&nbsp; Haha! Opportunities to meet new people for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:22:48&nbsp; There&#8217;s there&#8217;s a lot of decent topics. I mean, we were scrolling through the the speaker list in the schedule. I mean, there will be AI topics and, you know, there&#8217;s the typical like content topics and there&#8217;s a few hot button topics. You know, the the new a new CMS someone is building is pretty cool. I&#8217;m going to be talking about decoupling yourself from Google because I personally am starting to hate Google. But like, you know, you have to live with it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan:&nbsp; How can it be done?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard: How do you play the game? I don&#8217;t know, right? Or I do know and I&#8217;m going to talk about it. But there&#8217;s a lot of decent like hot button topics that are coming up too. So I think even from a professional level, it&#8217;s not these aren&#8217;t like throwaway speaker presentations, even though they&#8217;re volunteer speakers. There&#8217;s going to be a lot of meat to this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:23:31&nbsp; Yeah, I realize that it&#8217;ll be hard for people to see necessarily, but the schedule is very concise. It&#8217;s also very colorful. I like that. but yeah, there&#8217;s a lot of amazing topics. I&#8217;m. I&#8217;m also glad that my talk is done early, because otherwise I have a tendency to, like, obsess about it and sit in the green room and work on it too much. And this way it&#8217;ll be done and I can go listen to other topics as well, which is a good thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:23:52&nbsp; Yeah, and there&#8217;s so many cool stories there, like Tamara, from The Foundry. she&#8217;s like second last talk in the in the second track there. The Future of Entrepreneurship. Like, she literally like her whole thing. And her whole career now has been to support her daughter, who was a young entrepreneur and had this product that she created and blew up into a company. And so she had to, you know, build out the support system to help her daughter turn this idea into a company. And now she&#8217;s teaching and, you know, kind of mentors young entrepreneurs. So this should be a really interesting, interesting talk there too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:24:35&nbsp; Yeah, for sure. There&#8217;s a lot of really, really cool stuff on the schedule. If people want to learn more here, let me change things up here a little bit. I do have a banner. I have a banner for this. Just go to colorcode.events in your browser and you will be able to see the whole schedule. Read up about the speakers and the topics, see more of what&#8217;s being planned for the day and for what&#8217;s up to the minute stuff. Go ahead on go on X. I still call it Twitter. Guys, I&#8217;m sorry, but.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:25:04&nbsp; It’s Twitter. It’s both.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:25:05&nbsp; Yeah @colorCodeEvents. it&#8217;s nice that you have the, you name something that had the URL available. That&#8217;s not always easy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:25:17&nbsp; Not for Instagram though. Instagram. It was taken by some unused account. So it&#8217;s like I think it&#8217;s hellocolorcode on Instagram.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:25:24&nbsp; But yeah, there&#8217;s ways around things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:25:26&nbsp; But there&#8217;s always something.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:25:28&nbsp; Exactly. But yeah. And you can get your tickets right on the website as well. Colorcode.events right now they are. What did we say, $40 for a ticket? To attend for the full day. And that includes lunch?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:25:39&nbsp; Yep.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:25:41&nbsp; And the after party as well. So make sure that you sign up for that, especially if you&#8217;re in the area. But honestly, why wouldn&#8217;t you want to come anyway? And plus make a whole weekend of it? It&#8217;s just a hop, skip and a jump away from Niagara Falls. So you could actually, on Sunday, go and check out the falls or even Saturday night or Friday night or whatever. And, I love.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:25:59&nbsp; That we have our friends from, you know, Niagara Falls, Canada coming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:26:03&nbsp; Yep. Exactly. It&#8217;ll be good. I&#8217;m really looking forward to it. Yeah. Anything else you&#8217;d like to mention about it other than sign up? Come, join.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:26:13&nbsp; I think we&#8217;re going to be. We&#8217;re going to try. we&#8217;re not streaming it, but we are going to try and record every track and then, you know, get it up on a on a YouTube or make it available through the website in some way, shape or form or some combination of Tim&#8217;s cameras and our mics and whatever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:26:31&nbsp; Yeah, excellent. That&#8217;ll be great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:26:33&nbsp; Because we love torture. So we&#8217;re going to do that to ourselves.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:26:36&nbsp; That&#8217;s right. You know how that goes with with WordCamps. You know, then the footage will be there as well. Anybody edit it and actually upload it or will it sit on a.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:26:47&nbsp; It&#8217;s important though. It&#8217;s you know, we&#8217;ve run an event like this for ten years, but this is the first event. And we want to make sure that people can see what it was, what it was about, what types of quality topics we had and speakers. So, you know, we think that there&#8217;s something here. And if we can make sure that we&#8217;re always pushing out the quality of this, then, you know, it makes it more possible for us to potentially do another city at some point. And it&#8217;s not just in Buffalo in the northeast. It could be in the southeast, it could be Midwest, it could be whatever. You know, there&#8217;s creatives, marketers and devs all over the country. Could be in Canada, could be in Europe, I don&#8217;t know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:27:28&nbsp; Europe, yeah, it could be Europe. Color Code Europe/</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:27:30&nbsp; It&#8217;s only a concept of a plan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:27:33&nbsp; Exactly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:27:34&nbsp; That&#8217;s it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:27:35&nbsp; The concept of a plan. We have a couple people watching. If you have questions. Now is your time to put them in the comments before we wrap up for the day. I guess I have. I&#8217;m out of questions, I don&#8217;t know, are you still looking for sponsors or are you still in need of sponsors? And not so much?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:27:51 Well, always. We&#8217;re the high, ticket sponsors are all taken up there. We&#8217;re always open to someone doing a low level if they want to grab a ticket and a low level sponsorship just to support it. We&#8217;ll always welcome that. So there&#8217;s still time to do that, but will it? It&#8217;s not critical for the event. It&#8217;s all set up, ready to go. We&#8217;re just get people on the tickets, get people the event. We&#8217;re going to have a great time, listen to some quality talks, meet some cool people, then do it again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:28:20&nbsp; Sounds good. I&#8217;m looking forward to it. I will be there bright and early. So are you coming.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:28:25&nbsp; Your coming&nbsp; the night before right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:28:28&nbsp; I was planning to. I don&#8217;t have anybody in the area to help me with my scooter at the hotel. That&#8217;s what&#8217;s stopping me from coming out the night early the night before, so I was going to drive in super early on Saturday.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:28:38&nbsp; Okay.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:28:40&nbsp; But we can always talk later. If you know somebody that is in, is around and can help. But otherwise.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:28:45 That’s crazy we are here. I say that we&#8217;re we&#8217;re here like, you know, we were talking a little bit earlier on about your first WordCamp in Buffalo. Yeah. And, so that was the back in the good old days when Ben used to sneak, like, 150 people into the Canisius cafeteria, and that&#8217;s where we had the WordCamp. So that was.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:29:08&nbsp; We&#8217;ve come a long way, baby.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:29:09&nbsp; That&#8217;s right. That&#8217;s where your first one was. Right at Canisius?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette&nbsp; 00:29:13&nbsp; Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:29:14&nbsp; I&#8217;m pretty sure that&#8217;s where I met you at Canisius. Yeah. And. Yeah. And then I found out after I didn&#8217;t know this, but I was like, I thought we had permission. And Ben&#8217;s like, no, nobody. I&#8217;m like, you just had 150 people show up here. And nobody questioned?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:29:27&nbsp; Nobody blinked.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:29:29&nbsp; Yeah, everybody knew about it but Canisius. But it was cool. It was a good event.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:29:33&nbsp; It was like a it was a good event.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:29:35&nbsp; I met my first developer, Tommy, who is now our current developer, again at that event at Canisius. He was just graduating from school, actually, through one of Ben&#8217;s programs. And that&#8217;s the type of thing you can do. It&#8217;s a good recruiting place, good networking place. It&#8217;s a good learning place. And genuinely, like, we know when this community gets together, whether it&#8217;s WordPress or marketing or creative or just that side of it, it&#8217;s it&#8217;s always good people. So yeah, we look forward to bringing those people together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:30:01&nbsp; Will you have a job board people can write openings on, and people who are looking for jobs like we do some events?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:30:06&nbsp; You know, I thought about that and we haven&#8217;t set anything up. we do have a Slack channel, or property, whatever it&#8217;s called workspace that we have set up that we&#8217;re going to invite all the attendees into, probably after that 4/19 deadline so we can ramp up for two weeks and people can start chats in there and stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:30:26&nbsp; Sounds good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:30:26&nbsp; Because we want to just bring people together as much as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:30:30&nbsp; Yeah, I think that&#8217;s awesome. I want to thank.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:30:33&nbsp; Designers, developers, just any anybody that&#8217;s interested in, you know, learning more about some of the cool things that are being done or can be done, like this event, you know, it&#8217;s it&#8217;s it&#8217;s a great opportunity to network whether you&#8217;re looking to expand your career. You know, if I was in school as a computer science or developer or a, you know, a graphic designer or something right now, like this is an event, I would probably you&#8217;re going to have a bunch of the top marketing agencies in Buffalo on hand at this event, and it&#8217;s a great opportunity to expand that network and and just get out there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:31:16&nbsp; Absolutely, and if you even are thinking about it like I&#8217;ve been asking women like, you know, advice for people who are thinking, women who are thinking about joining WordPress and joining tech. So, I mean, if you have an inkling or want to learn a little bit more about it and the kinds of people involved, it&#8217;s a really inexpensive ticket to spend the day networking with folks and learning as much as you can.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:31:37&nbsp; Yeah, and hopefully the weather cooperates with us. It&#8217;ll be May. May can be very nice in Buffalo. It could also be not nice. Who knows?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:31:45&nbsp; I mean, we had snow yesterday.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:31:47&nbsp; I&#8217;m hoping we can show off the city because it, you know, when the weather breaks in the city, it&#8217;s one of the best ones to to visit in the summertime. But there&#8217;s good people here, and we&#8217;re in a good spot downtown, so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:32:01&nbsp; Absolutely. Well, guys, don&#8217;t go anywhere. I&#8217;m going to go ahead and end this. But I want to talk to you for just a couple of minutes before we go. Thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate learning more and and being able to share this event with people through Post Status. if you are listening, go to colorcode.events for more information. And I don&#8217;t know who&#8217;s going to be here next week, but I will have another Post Status Happiness Hour live next week and we&#8217;ll be here to chat with everybody.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Tim Bouchard 00:32:28&nbsp; Thanks. Yeah. Thanks, Michelle.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ron Brennan 00:32:30&nbsp; Yeah.</p>\n<p>This article, <a href="https://poststatus.com/post-status-happiness-hour-session-twenty-five/">Post Status Happiness Hour Session Twenty Five</a>, was published at  <a href="https://poststatus.com">Post Status</a> — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 17 Apr 2025 21:30:27 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Olivia Bisset";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:63:"Post Status: Layoffs: Survivor’s Guilt and Fear of Being Next";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://poststatus.com/?p=163488";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:62:"https://poststatus.com/survivors-guilt-and-fear-of-being-next/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7843:"<p>Since being laid off in February, I&#8217;ve had a lot of conversations with others on both sides of layoffs. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s really hard to be in the tech job market (or any job market in this economy) right now, with <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2025/04/04/tech-layoffs-2025-list/">so many recent layoffs</a>. As someone in the mix of it right now (and I haven&#8217;t been looking that earnestly yet, as I&#8217;ve been taking some time to regroup, heal from feelings through the process, and decide what my next steps are) I understand the mental burden, the anxiety, and the fear that comes with being on the job market. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am privileged to be in a place financially that has afforded me some time off as I strategize. Others are not as fortunate and need to find work immediately to keep paying bills and putting food on the table for their families. It&#8217;s not easy, for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it&#8217;s also not easy for those at the companies doing layoffs who are still employed there. There are so many feelings that come with being a &#8220;layoff survivor.&#8221; Yet to talk about those feelings seems so insensitive to those who are job searching like crazy, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The thing is, it&#8217;s hard on both sides of the issue. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>While on the one hand, clearly, it&#8217;s difficult to be in a place where you&#8217;re suddenly looking for new employment, desperately trying to make sure you spend wisely to get you through to your next job, the truth is that <em>it&#8217;s mentally difficult to be a survivor, too.</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sitting where I am at the moment, polishing my résumé, reading through job posts, it <em>could</em> (or should) be difficult to have sympathy for those <em>working</em>, but I&#8217;ve been in both places. I&#8217;ve been the person still in the company watching friends and colleagues suddenly wondering what to do next, and I&#8217;ve been where I am now.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-survivor-s-guilt-is-real-so-is-dread">Survivor&#8217;s Guilt is Real. So is Dread.</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>It really doesn&#8217;t feel good when your employer has to do layoffs &#8211; even when you are one of the people still employed.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li>You may feel guilty when you see others being laid off and you&#8217;re still holding your job. This is a normal response in this situation. It&#8217;s difficult to see coworkers and friends lose their roles. Feeling bad for them is normal. It&#8217;s also normal to feel a sort of survivor&#8217;s guilt that you still have your role.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>You may also feel the dread of &#8220;waiting for the other shoe to drop.&#8221; Feeling like it could be you next causes anxiety. This is also a normal feeling. Anything that disrupts the status quo of your working environment &#8211; real or virtual &#8211; can make you feel off-kilter at best, and dread at worst.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Layoffs usually happen when there is a surplus of workers for the demand, mostly based on sales. So feeling the dread of wondering if you will be included in the next wave of layoffs (or wondering if there <em>will be </em>a next wave) is very normal. And while there aren&#8217;t any words anyone can give you to make you feel 100% secure, you should know that a wave of layoffs isn&#8217;t a whim, and is planned well in advance to combat issues that have been rising over time, so if your job is still in place following layoffs, you should be fairly confident that you will continue to be employed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s also common after layoffs to have workloads redistributed, so you may feel some dread or anxiety if your workload is increased. Be sure to communicate with your supervisor what is actually doable, and what is too much to expect one person to accomplish. A company&#8217;s decision to do layoffs shouldn&#8217;t mean that those still working are taxed with more work than they can handle.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-how-to-talk-to-someone-who-has-been-laid-off">How to Talk to Someone Who Has Been Laid Off</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>First, please <em>do</em> talk to those you want to remain friends (or friendly) with after they have been removed from their roles. Being laid off can feel like you&#8217;ve just been evicted from a home. You&#8217;ve often lost access to either a physical space you&#8217;re used to, or a digital one, or both. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Not being in Slack channels with people you worked with, losing access to email and calendars, and watching access to work spaces disappear feels like you&#8217;ve been excommunicated from a community, when it&#8217;s really just a business protecting its own assets and following protocols. Reaching out to folks after the fact can help bridge the gap they feel between themselves and people they were used to working with.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Do&#8217;s and Don&#8217;ts</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li><strong>Do</strong> ask friends how they are doing and if they need to chat. Reaching out to check in, to say you enjoyed working together, or just to say you miss someone is a lovely way to stay connected.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Don&#8217;t</strong> ask them &#8220;have you found a job yet&#8221; or &#8220;how is the job search going.&#8221; This often feels like pressure, and having to say &#8220;no, I haven&#8217;t&#8221; feels bad. There is so much self doubt at this point in a person&#8217;s life, that added pressure by others about the job just feels oppressive and embarrassing.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Do</strong> offer to take them to coffee (or a coffee zoom) and be a listening ear.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Don&#8217;t</strong> badmouth the company or allow them to make you feel uncomfortable if they do.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Do</strong> offer to help if you can: review a résumé, make a call, serve as a reference, etc.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Don&#8217;t</strong> take anything they&#8217;ve shared with you back to the office to repeat to others. Don&#8217;t betray their trust.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Do</strong> offer reassurance, without sounding trite. Saying things like &#8220;I know you&#8217;ll land something soon,&#8221; or &#8220;you&#8217;ll be fine&#8221; aren&#8217;t helpful.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Nice, but not necessary</strong>, you can always gift someone a gift card for coffee, a meal, or something they enjoy as a hobby. (When I received a few of these, they made me feel valued, seen, and supported.)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-protect-your-mental-health">Protect Your Mental Health</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Regardless of who was laid off in your company, none of their current situation is based on anything that <em>you</em> did or didn&#8217;t do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Leaning into guilt, anxiety, and dread doesn&#8217;t help someone else, and only hurts yourself, your mental wellbeing, and, potentially, your work performance. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you are struggling with your mental response to layoffs at your company, please find a trusted person, therapist, or doctor to talk to. </p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-if-you-have-been-laid-off">If You Have Been Laid Off&#8230;</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>There are resources to help you. You can refer to <a href="https://poststatus.com/wordpress-layoffs-some-resources/">our post about layoff resources</a> for many areas of help, including job boards, résumé ideas, networking groups and more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Remember that you aren&#8217;t alone. You have value. You deserve to work. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are people and resources to help you navigate to your next role.</p>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\n<p>This article, <a href="https://poststatus.com/survivors-guilt-and-fear-of-being-next/">Layoffs: Survivor&#8217;s Guilt and Fear of Being Next</a>, was published at  <a href="https://poststatus.com">Post Status</a> — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 17 Apr 2025 21:30:27 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Michelle Frechette";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Post Status: Agency News Weekly";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://poststatus.com/?p=163428";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:53:"https://poststatus.com/agency-news-weekly-2025-04-07/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:6084:"<h2 class="gb-headline gb-headline-3f9efd72 gb-headline-text">Google Wants to Subscribe to Your Email List</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li>Your email newsletter can now influence how brands appear across Google&#8217;s search platforms.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>A new addition to the <a href="https://business.google.com/us/merchant-center/">Google Merchant Center</a> expands Googles index by including marketing emails in its crawled data.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Google will examine your emails and extract sales and promotions, new products, social media content and links, brand voice, images, and videos.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>To include Google as a recipient, add marketingemailtogoog@gmail.com to your list, or Google may sign up for these communications automatically.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>If you&#8217;d rather not have Google indexing your marketing communications, <a href="https://support.google.com/merchants/answer/15760498#How-do-I-opt-out">you can opt-out</a> in the General Account Options area of the Google Merchant Center</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://progressplanner.com/google-now-wants-your-marketing-emails-literally/">Read more about this interesting development in this post from Joost de Valk</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class="gb-headline gb-headline-930042ec gb-headline-text">Hackers Are Hiding Malicious Code in MU Plugins </h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li><a href="https://blog.sucuri.net/2025/02/hidden-backdoors-uncovered-in-wordpress-malware-investigation.html">Sucuri researchers</a> have noticed a new trend of malicious code hidden in the WordPress mu-plugins directory.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>A <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/advanced-administration/plugins/mu-plugins/">Must-Use (MU) plugin</a> is a special type of WordPress plugin that automatically executes on every page load without requiring activation like other plugins in the dashboard.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>In order to create an MU plugin, an attacker must gain access to the site by exploiting compromised themes, plugins, or credentials.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Sucuri researchers have found 3 specific payloads being added to MU plugins:\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li><strong>Redirect.php</strong>: redirects visitors (other than bots and logged-in admins) to page that attempts to trick them into downloading malware.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Index.php</strong>: a particularly dangerous webshell UI that allows execution of PHP code from a GitHub repository.<br /><strong>Custom-js-loader.php</strong>: replaces all images on the site with adult content and redirects all links to dangerous websites.</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>While many agencies already have a good process for protecting against compromised themes, plugins, and credentials, adding file change notices and/or regular audits of the mu-plugins directory is something to consider.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class="gb-headline gb-headline-7643d17f gb-headline-text">Do Exact Match Domains Matter in Today&#8217;s SEO?</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li>Back in the day, if you owned the domain name that was an exact match for a search keyword, it was almost a guarantee you&#8217;d be at the top of the search results.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>While exact match domains no longer guarantee SEO success like they used to, they can still provide value as part of a marketing strategy that prioritizes memorability and trust.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Local businesses in particular can benefit from geo-specific exact match domains, especially in competitive service industries <em>(think chicagoplumber.com or dallaselectrician.com).</em></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Plus, voice search and AI assistants have made memorable, easily pronounced domain names more valuable than ever.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>&#8220;If your domain sounds like a real brand, people will treat it like one – and so will search engines.&#8221;</em></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Learn more about <a href="https://searchengineland.com/exact-match-domains-value-453837">exact match domains</a> and the <a href="https://searchengineland.com/seo-imperative-brand-building-453277">importance of brand-building in SEO</a> in these 2 helpful articles from SearchEngineLand.<br /><br /></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class="gb-headline gb-headline-7813eada gb-headline-text">Worth a Look </h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li><strong><a href="https://automattic.com/2025/04/02/restructuring-announcement/">Automattic has announced</a> a 16% workforce reduction</strong> &#8220;to protect&nbsp;Automattic’s long-term future,&#8221; according to Matt Mullenweg.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>ICYMI, <strong>Skype will be shutting down for good on May 5</strong>. If you&#8217;re still using a Skype phone number for VoIP and SMS, Google Voice seems to be the most logical replacement. <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2025/03/15/skype-shuts-down-in-may-these-are-the-best-alternatives/#h-how-to-export-skype-data">Skype also supports data export</a> if you want to save old messages.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href="https://wpslimseo.com/introducing-slim-seo-pro/">SlimSEO has released a new Pro version</a></strong> combining its previous <a href="https://wpslimseo.com/products/slim-seo-schema/">Schema</a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href="https://wpslimseo.com/products/slim-seo-link-manager/">Link Manager</a>&nbsp;add-ons into a single new premium plugin.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://www.theverge.com/news/641270/adobe-premiere-pro-generative-extend-generally-available"><strong>Adobe Premiere Pro has a new generative AI tool</strong> </a>that can extend 4K clips by up to 2 seconds and audio by 10 seconds.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Learn <a href="https://searchengineland.com/optimize-company-google-knowledge-panel-453882">how to optimize your agency&#8217;s Google Knowledge Panel</a></strong> with this helpful guide.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Microsoft has unveiled an <a href="https://copilot.microsoft.com/wham">AI-generated version of Quake II</a></strong> you can play in a browser.</li>\n</ul>\n<p>This article, <a href="https://poststatus.com/agency-news-weekly-2025-04-07/">Agency News Weekly</a>, was published at  <a href="https://poststatus.com">Post Status</a> — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 17 Apr 2025 21:30:27 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Nathan Ingram";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48:"Post Status: The Latest from Post Status Members";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://poststatus.com/?p=163434";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:70:"https://poststatus.com/the-latest-from-post-status-members-2025-04-07/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:6448:"<p><strong>Ronni K. Gothard Christiansen</strong> shared a LinkedIn post highlighting recognition for business technology achievements and the MyData Global Award. <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ronnikc_business-technology-mydataglobalaward-activity-7312787636471939073-Xplz">See the post</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Seth Goldstein</strong> had a busy week of appearances and publications: he interviewed <strong>Anthony Franco</strong> on <em>Entrepreneur’s Enigma</em>, discussed branding from scratch on <em>Digital Marketing Dive</em>, and was a guest on <em>Podcasting Amplified</em> to talk podcasting. <a href="https://entrepreneursenigma.com/anthonyfranco">Entrepreneur’s Enigma</a> • <a href="https://www.digitalmarketingdive.com/crafting-your-identity-steps-to-kickstart-your-brand-from-ground-zero">Digital Marketing Dive</a> • <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/essential-podcasting-tips-and-tricks-from-a-15/id1714803934?i=1000701678105">Podcasting Amplified</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Chris Reynolds</strong> posted a quick video recap of <strong>DrupalCon Atlanta</strong>. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxLDEoSidXE">Watch it here</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rae Morey</strong> shared her excitement about attending <strong>PressConf</strong> in Arizona as an official media partner and wrote about why she’s heading to the event. <a href="https://www.therepository.email/why-im-heading-to-arizona-for-the-first-ever-pressconf">Read the article</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amadeu Arderiu</strong> announced the beta launch of <strong>Joinchat AI</strong>, a new WordPress chatbot that uses only your site content to power AI conversations, with flexible post type selection.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Seth Goldstein</strong> published the latest edition of the <em>Marketing Junto</em> newsletter, featuring a discussion on <strong>Perplexity and TikTok</strong>. <a href="https://marketingjunto.com/perplexity-and-tiktok/">Read it here</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Adrian Tobey</strong> live-streamed a roast of old versions of his Groundhogg plugin. <a href="https://youtu.be/DVDhedllJL0?t=402">Watch the stream</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Medeiros</strong> shared a video showing how <strong>AI can handle phone calls</strong> for WordPress freelancers and agencies. <a href="https://youtu.be/Gg1BzvIwZng">Watch here</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Derek Ashauer</strong> released <strong>Conversion Bridge 1.7</strong>, now supporting 16 analytics platforms, 6 ad platforms, and 55 plugin integrations for enhanced tracking and segmentation. <a href="https://conversionbridgewp.com/enhanced-conversions-for-all/">View the update</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ronni K. Gothard Christiansen</strong> posted about <strong>new U.S. cross-border data sharing rules</strong> and their potential impact. <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/new-us-cross-border-data-sharing-rules-ronni-k-gothard-christiansen-ngnwc">Read more</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Taco Verdonschot</strong> addressed the ban of <strong>Joost de Valk</strong> and <strong>Progress Planner</strong> from WordCamp Asia and all future events in a personal blog post. <a href="https://progressplanner.com/real-impact-of-being-banned-from-wordpress/">Read his perspective</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Alex Standiford</strong> is seeking a new WordPress client and shared a <strong>portfolio of complex projects</strong> he’s worked on. <a href="https://www.alexstandiford.com/category/portfolio/">View portfolio</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> hosted a live Twitch session focused on <strong>adding user profiles to the Block Developer Cookbook</strong>. <a href="https://www.twitch.tv/RyanWelcherCodes">Watch the stream</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Chris</strong> published a blog post recounting his <strong>experience at DrupalCon Atlanta</strong> from a WordPress perspective. <a href="https://pantheon.io/blog/wordpresser-goes-drupalcon-atlanta-2025">Read it here</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Benjamin Intal</strong> shared a new project idea exploring how <strong>AI might help with article writing</strong>, especially when struggling to organize thoughts. <a href="https://x.com/bfintal/status/1908104586638012774?s=46&t=LFLih_w_bvvXcu6ZC62o4Q">View the tweet</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bossenger</strong> returned to livestreaming and focused on fixing issues in his <strong>WP to MD exporter plugin</strong>. <a href="https://www.twitch.tv/jonathanbossenger">Watch the session</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Joost de Valk</strong> published a post discussing how <strong>Google is targeting marketing emails</strong>. <a href="https://progressplanner.com/google-now-wants-your-marketing-emails-literally/">Read the article</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Topher DeRosia</strong> announced the launch of the <strong>HeroPress swag store</strong>, with $5 from each sale supporting the HeroPress mission. <a href="https://thewp.world/product-category/heropress/">Visit the store</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tom Whitaker</strong> showcased a Canadian-flavored demo of <strong>voice-driven AI form building</strong> with <strong>GravityBuilder.ai</strong>, which works as an add-on to Gravity Forms. <a href="https://gravitybuilder.ai">Learn more</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Carl Alexander</strong> shared a livestream session where he tested <strong>North Commerce with Ymir</strong>, evaluating compatibility between the two platforms. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD0kH-QbRx0">Watch here</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Bob Dunn</strong> announced that <strong>Michelle Frechette</strong> has joined the Do the Woo hosting team to focus on WordPress event discussions. The announcement is available on the <a href="https://dothewoo.io/michelle-frechette-joins-the-do-the-woo-hosting-team-for-wordpress-event-talk/">Do the Woo website</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jamie Marsland</strong> highlighted research showing that 90% of B2B buyers create a shortlist before formal research begins, emphasizing the importance of brand trust and visibility for WordPress businesses. More details are in his post on <a href="https://www.pootlepress.com/2025/04/90-of-buyers-wont-shortlist-you-unless-they-know-and-trust-your-brand-research-reveals/">Pootlepress</a>.</p>\n<p>This article, <a href="https://poststatus.com/the-latest-from-post-status-members-2025-04-07/">The Latest from Post Status Members</a>, was published at  <a href="https://poststatus.com">Post Status</a> — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 17 Apr 2025 21:30:27 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Nathan Ingram";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:59:"Post Status: Post Status Happiness Hour Session Twenty Four";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://poststatus.com/?p=163457";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:73:"https://poststatus.com/post-status-happiness-hour-session-twenty-three-2/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:60536:"<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><a href="https://poststatus.com/category/planet/#h-transcript">Transcript</a> ↓</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode of the Post Status Happiness Hour, host <a href="https://x.com/michelleames">Michelle Frechette</a> interviews <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerwilliamsmedia/">Roger Williams</a> from Kinsta. Who serves as the Partnerships and Community Manager for North America. They discuss various topics including the WordPress community, Kinsta&#8217;s new affiliate program, and their global sponsorship of WordCamps. The episode also highlights the creation of collaborative music playlists within the Post Status Slack community and the importance of concise, engaging content. Additionally, the guest shares insights on supporting WordPress contributors and the launch of Kinsta&#8217;s new automatic updates feature for themes and plugins.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-top-takeaways">Top Takeaways: </h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li><strong>The Importance of Thorough Testing in Software Development and Releases:</strong> Michelle emphasized the critical role of testing and feedback during the release cycle of WordPress 6.8, particularly as they approach its official launch. Despite having a dedicated testing community, the need for more testers is constant to ensure compatibility with a wide range of plugins and themes. The takeaway is that comprehensive testing is vital for minimizing issues at launch, and encouraging more community involvement can help ensure smoother releases.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>The Value of Consistent Community Contribution and Support for Open Source Projects:</strong> Roger highlighted the importance of documentation in open-source projects like WordPress, noting that it&#8217;s often underappreciated until something goes wrong. He also spoke about Kinsta’s involvement in supporting the community through contributions, such as sponsoring WordCamp and supporting documentation initiatives. The takeaway is that consistent, behind-the-scenes contributions, like documentation and community support, are crucial for the sustainability and success of open-source projects, even though they are often taken for granted.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Kinsta’s Automatic Updates Feature Enhances Site Reliability:</strong> Roger introduced Kinsta’s new Automatic Updates feature, which ensures WordPress sites remain updated while minimizing risks. The system takes a before-and-after screenshot during updates and automatically reverts changes if visual differences are detected, helping prevent website issues that could impact business operations.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-mentioned-in-the-show">Mentioned In The Show:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li><a href="https://kinsta.com/">Kinsta</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://linuxcontainers.org/">Linux container project  </a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/">LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2025/">WordCamp US</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://sevalla.com/">Sevalla</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://www.cloudflare.com/lp/dg/brand/cloudflare-enterprise/?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=ao-fy-acq-namer_en-connectivity-en-txt-general-brand_product&utm_content=brand_umbrella_core&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=CLOUD_ACQ_AOFY_CNC_GOOGLE_GENERAL_TXT_NAMER-EN_NA_MOFU_GENERAL_X_LEAD-GEN_BRAND-PRODUCT&utm_content=Brand_Umbrella_Core&campaignid=71700000121545787&adgroupid=58700008860151626&creativeid=739454660289&&utm_term=cloudflare%20enterprise_go_cmp-20146409196_adg-152212902947_ad-739454660289_kwd-418069705345_dev-c_ext-_prd-_sig-CjwKCAjwwLO_BhB2EiwAx2e-3300Ih7Dbq0XKzasJpuOGihSN2zBmtYH097QVZ3Am_X10ChkNQSbvhoCZNUQAvD_BwE&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwwLO_BhB2EiwAx2e-3300Ih7Dbq0XKzasJpuOGihSN2zBmtYH097QVZ3Am_X10ChkNQSbvhoCZNUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds">Cloudflare Enterprise</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://stackoverflow.com/questions">StackOverflow</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="http://meetup.com">Meetup.com</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://wordpressfoundation.org/">WordPress Foundation</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://esoterracider.com/">EsoTerra Cidery</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://kinsta.com/changelog/kinsta-automatic-updates/">Kinsta Automatic Updates</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class="wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-2 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex">\n<div class="wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow">\n<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-sponsor-wordpress-com"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f64f.png" alt="🙏" class="wp-smiley" /> Sponsor: <a href="https://poststatus.com/wordpresscom">WordPress.com</a></h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Build and manage professional sites with secure managed hosting on WordPress.com. Beautiful themes, built-in SEO, and payment tools, and access to over 50,000 plugins. Everything you need for your business, plus 24/7 support from WordPress experts. </p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class="wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow">\n<img width="752" height="752" src="https://poststatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/WordPress_blue_logo.svg-752x752.png" alt="" class="wp-image-158475" />\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-social-media"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f426.png" alt="🐦" class="wp-smiley" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Social Media:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerwilliamsmedia/">Roger Williams</a> (Community Manager, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/kinsta/">Kinsta</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://twitter.com/michelleames">Michelle Frechette</a>&nbsp;(Director of Community Relations,&nbsp;<a href="https://twitter.com/post_status">Post Status</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://twitter.com/lemonadecode">Olivia Bisset</a>&nbsp;(Intern,&nbsp;<a href="https://twitter.com/post_status">Post Status</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The <strong>Post Status</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f4dd.png" alt="📝" class="wp-smiley" /></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href="https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008">iTunes</a>, <a href="https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus">YouTube</a>, <a href="http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast">Stitcher</a>, <a href="https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/">Simplecast</a>, or <a href="https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P">RSS</a>. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f3a7.png" alt="🎧" class="wp-smiley" /></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-transcript">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:00:02&nbsp; We&#8217;re live. We&#8217;re live here on the Post Status Happiness Hour. Okay. First questions first. What&#8217;s on your head?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:00:11&nbsp; Oh.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:00:12&nbsp; I see, I see rainbows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:00:14&nbsp; Yeah. So, I was just at a conference last week, and there were a lot of podcasters there, and they told me to stop using Bluetooth headphones when I&#8217;m podcasting. and so. So I switched back to my old school wired in headphones, and all I&#8217;ve got are these really old sennheiser&#8217;s that I had to tape with, rainbow duct tape years ago.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:00:39&nbsp; It looks like you have a pretty little bow in your hair.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:00:43&nbsp; Perfect, perfect. That&#8217;s what that&#8217;s that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m hoping. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m going for.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:00:47&nbsp; I mean, but you know what, Roger? On you it works.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:00:51&nbsp; Well, thank you, I appreciate that. Thank you so much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:00:54&nbsp; And thanks for joining me today on the Happiness Hour. I it&#8217;s it&#8217;s always a pleasure to talk to you for multiple reasons, chief, of course, is that you&#8217;re a wonderful person to talk to. But also, I get to see those pictures of your dog in the background and like, who wouldn&#8217;t love those pictures? The dogs, I think one, two dogs, right? Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:01:13&nbsp; Two dogs. Yeah. So, Daisy. Well, Daisy over here and then Enzo&#8217;s over here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:01:17&nbsp; Yeah, yeah. Just adorable. Adorable. I would love to claim all of the wildlife as my own and my pictures, but alas, they do not live with me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:01:27&nbsp; Well, that&#8217;s that&#8217;s a lot cheaper. You don&#8217;t have to maintain as much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:01:29&nbsp; True, true. I do have a cat that lives behind my monitor because she has a little bed back there. She likes it back there because I can&#8217;t reach her and she can stay out of it. Like I can&#8217;t make her accept my hugs and kisses, basically. But she comes up and stretches every once in a while and, you know, let&#8217;s me pet her for a second. But anyway.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:01:48&nbsp; So she represents cats very well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:01:50&nbsp; Yeah she does. She&#8217;s got it down pat. She realizes I&#8217;m the staff. I&#8217;m not the owner. So it&#8217;s all good.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams: Nice.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: So first let me say welcome not only to the show, but Kinsta we got everything in the works right now. Any moment we should be able to. I&#8217;m going to officially announce the soft launch of the sponsorship of Post Status. So welcome. As a sponsor, we created our own little sponsorship channel with you all today, and I&#8217;m open for those conversations. It&#8217;s really great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:02:21&nbsp; I mean once there&#8217;s a sponsor channel in Slack that makes it official, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:02:25&nbsp; It does, it does. It&#8217;s just the the just. And we signed the contract. It&#8217;s just that little payment thing. And I know that you guys are good for it. So we&#8217;re gonna announce it anyway. So so welcome.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:02:36&nbsp; Absolutely. Thank you.&nbsp; Yeah. Excited to be part of the community and and help. you know, I know it&#8217;s $50 a year now. Like, what, a smoking deal.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: Yeah, right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:02:47&nbsp; I am encouraging everybody to join. I actually just had a great conversation with Joost, and we talked about, you know, his kind of goal and mission with, you know, making Post Status into a nonprofit and really making it that community that can have all of the conversations, you know, and have the spicy conversations, right. And, and still manage to be a group of people that get along. And so that&#8217;s really encouraging.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:03:17&nbsp; And we do fun stuff, too. I don&#8217;t know if you saw it, but we started a new channel today called The Music Channel.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams: Okay.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: And I got an official like, I paid for an official Spotify account today called Post Status, and I have two playlists in there that are open to collaboration amongst our community. So if you&#8217;re in Post Status Slack and you go to the music channel, you will see you can add to those playlists. One is for folks who like mellow music when they work, and the other is for people who like upbeat music when they work. So you can just add to that playlist or building playlists two playlists together as a community for for fun, right? Because you can do that. We can do those fun things there. And I really enjoy that too. So it&#8217;s pretty cool stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:04:04&nbsp; That&#8217;s really awesome. I love the initiative there. It&#8217;s always interesting to hear what other people listen to. When their getting work done.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:04:13&nbsp; Yeah. Can I tell you my biggest fear was that because I had to seed it with something, right. So I put like two songs in each one and I thought, I&#8217;m going to be judged so hard by these four songs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:04:24&nbsp; Okay. What were the songs?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Speaker 3 00:04:26&nbsp; Oh, now I gotta go back and look.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:04:27&nbsp; Okay, hold on a second. I put in You Don&#8217;t Know Me, which is a Ray Charles&nbsp; &amp; Diana Krall song. This is the mellow one. Yeah. which I think nobody but I&#8217;m a huge Josh Groban fan. So the other one was When You Say You Love Me by Josh Groban.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams: Okay.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:04:42&nbsp; And then the upbeat songs. I actually did a little research. See, I listened to 70s music all the time, like 70s and 80s. That&#8217;s what I was doing. So I did a little research. I&#8217;m like, what are upbeat songs that people like to listen to? And even though Coldplay gets a bad rap sometimes. Viva la Vida was the number one song on multiple lists. So that and On Top of the World by Imagine Dragons. Were the four that I seeded. Two each, you know two each into those things. And I thought nobody so far has said, Michelle, your taste in music is awful. So we&#8217;re gonna let it ride. We&#8217;re gonna let it ride. If I need to, I can always delete them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:05:16&nbsp; I feel like you went with some pretty safe choices there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:05:19&nbsp; I mean, I tried.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:05:20&nbsp; Good songs, good bands, so. And. And now it&#8217;s up to people to, proliferate the lists with their ideas. And I&#8217;m looking forward to see what people start sharing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:05:33&nbsp; Yeah. Well, on the upbeat songs, I will say Corey Maass went to work on it because we got we&#8217;re up to 18 songs on that playlist and we have five on the other playlist. So yeah. So if you are not a member of Post Status and you want to be, it&#8217;s only $50 a year, you can influence these playlists. Us. I mean, I&#8217;m going to start listening to him tomorrow and see, you know, how much work I get done. We&#8217;ll see.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:05:54&nbsp; I&#8217;ll tell you what. I feel like we&#8217;re in a telethon type situation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:05:57&nbsp; I know right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:06:00&nbsp; You&#8217;re standing by to take your call. Let&#8217;s let&#8217;s see what you let&#8217;s get joining up here, people.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:06:05&nbsp; Oh, my goodness. I&#8217;m old enough to have grown up on the Jerry Lewis telethons where he&#8217;s like, let&#8217;s see that tote board. Right. As the numbers flip over and like, the old alarm clocks did. It was so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:06:16&nbsp; Funny. Absolutely. No, I used to remember they would always come on, like, PBS and stuff when I was one to watch the new Star Trek series or something. And I&#8217;m like, you guys are killing me. I&#8217;ve got no money. I&#8217;m just a kid.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:06:28&nbsp; Yeah, and all of the people they would bring on were like the old Love Boat type people. Like, it&#8217;s like, I don&#8217;t want to see Charo. I know she does good flamenco. Show me somebody I care about. Like. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, it was what it was. Donald O&#8217;Connor dancing at 78 years old. No, I don&#8217;t need to see that. But anyway. James says hello to both of us. Hey, James. Good to have you here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:06:53&nbsp; I haven’t seen James in a while.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:06:55&nbsp; He&#8217;s a pretty awesome dude.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:06:56&nbsp; Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:06:57&nbsp; He really is. So tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do at Kinsta.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:07:03&nbsp; Oh, boy. Okay, so, so at Kinsta. I&#8217;ll just start there. I recently actually got, kind of a title change, so now I was Community Manager. Now I&#8217;m Partnerships and Community Manager for North America. And so what does that mean? So I get to go to a lot of events, and kind of try and engage the community, get feedback as far as, hey, you know, on the hosting product, get feedback about how what people are thinking about WordPress in general. And then I take that information back to the home base and share it with the powers that be and my coworkers to help improve the product and then also see how we can help. the WordPress project overall. And so one initiative that we&#8217;ve got going relatively recently is we&#8217;ve started sponsoring contributors to WordPress. And so that has been just a lot of fun, reaching out to different contributors and seeing, you know, how we can help them, help their work, and really improve WordPress. Because if WordPress doesn&#8217;t keep improving, there&#8217;s not a whole lot for Kinsta to do. So that&#8217;s kind of a new initiative. Other things. So with the partnership side, I talk with different companies that are adjacent to Kinsta.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:08:30&nbsp; So agencies are a big one. We have a lot of agency customers. And we also have a lot of customers that use agencies. And so it&#8217;s very important that we have a dialogue with agencies as far as what works for them. What we could improve with the product and how we can help them grow their business as well.. And then also with like plugin makers and theme designers and, you know, the whole ecosystem of WordPress companies kind of works in there. And then also just going one step further is open source in general. So at Kinsta one thing that we&#8217;ve utilized for many years is Linux containers for each of the sites, isolates them, gives them a lot of resources. And so we help support the maintainer of the Linux container project, which is changing into Incus and getting a little in the weeds here. But so that&#8217;s really exciting too, is being able to reach out to the people who make the tools that allow us to make WordPress and allow us to host websites and help them get their work. Continued and supported. Jeez. And, you know, it&#8217;s a pretty nebulous position. So there&#8217;s there&#8217;s a lot of things going on. I do a lot of videos. I make videos on LinkedIn where I interview people in the WordPress ecosystem as well as.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:09:57&nbsp; Those are compelling, by the way, because you keep them concise, right? They&#8217;re not they don&#8217;t go on for hours. They also are fun. You have topics that you put right there and and they just show up in your newsfeed. So you&#8217;re like, oh, what&#8217;s this all about? Those are awesome. I mean, even if I&#8217;m speaking from having been on the other side of your microphone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:10:16&nbsp; Well, thank you so much. I appreciate the feedback and the encouragement. It it started as just a fun way to get to know presenters before WordCamp US last year. And then I went to WordCamp US and everybody, not everybody, but a lot of people wanted to ask me if they could be on my podcast. And I was like, well, first of all, it&#8217;s not really technically a podcast. But, Yeah. No, I wanted to interview more people, and I like, you know, LinkedIn imposes the 15 minute time rule that I have, which is kind of nice because it allows me. I&#8217;m only interrupting somebody&#8217;s day for 15 minutes, to do the interview. And then I&#8217;m only interrupting your day for 15 minutes if you want to watch the interview. So I feel like it&#8217;s very courteous of me in some ways.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:11:06&nbsp; Yeah, absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:11:07&nbsp; But. And then there&#8217;s just a lot of fun. It&#8217;s an opportunity to get to know people in the industry, people that I maybe have known for a while and learn more about them and then meet new people and hear their stories and then help share their stories. So, that, like, that was like kind of an afterthought activity. And it&#8217;s really turned into a pretty considerable amount of my job. And, again, I get a lot of encouragement from my bosses to keep doing those.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:11:36&nbsp; Yeah. It&#8217;s great, I love it. You&#8217;ve talked to some pretty awesome people. You&#8217;ve talked to a lot of people that I&#8217;ve never heard of or met before, too, which I love because you&#8217;re introducing people to the WordPress community that we want to know because they&#8217;re doing cool stuff. So I love that component of it as well, for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:11:54&nbsp; That&#8217;s great to hear. And I&#8217;d like to say that that is all by design. A lot of it is just because I don&#8217;t know the big names in WordPress, and so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:12:04&nbsp; That&#8217;s okay too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:12:05&nbsp; I haven&#8217;t connected with them yet. But then also there is has been a little bit of a conscious decision to seek out people who are not getting as much exposure and maybe aren&#8217;t as well known, but who I&#8217;ve met one way or another. And I know that they&#8217;re very interesting people. And I mean, everybody&#8217;s got a story to tell. And I and I think the nice thing about 15 minutes is it makes it easy for people to tell their story and not run out of things to talk about. And so we, can we can put something together that&#8217;s pretty interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:12:37&nbsp; Well, I will tell you that you did inspire something I&#8217;ve been working on, which is starting, last month. It is April now. Yep. Starting last month. Last month was Women&#8217;s History Month, and so I got it in my head on like the fourth or fifth day of the month. Oh, it&#8217;s women&#8217;s history. We should interview women in WordPress. I thought I would get maybe ten people, right? I have over 50 interviews now that I&#8217;ve recorded.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams: Wow.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: They average about five minutes. Some go as long as 12, some as short as like four. Which I guess is not really an average of five, but there&#8217;s about five minutes. Six maybe. And, they take out the outliers, but then, it&#8217;s been really awesome. And because there&#8217;s so many of them, I&#8217;m continuing it for months and it might just be a regular feature we have. We have a YouTube playlist. Now that&#8217;s these, women&#8217;s interviews within WordPress.&nbsp; And I am so proud to say that we have interviewed somebody on every inhabitable continent of the world. So I&#8217;ve got women from literally everywhere, which is so cool. But it&#8217;s because I saw your shorter, you know, concise interviews that I thought I could do, like Roger does.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:13:44&nbsp; That&#8217;s awesome. I and I, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re blowing it out of the water. you&#8217;re way more composed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:13:49&nbsp; I&#8217;m having fun.I don&#8217;t know about that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:13:53&nbsp; And I you know, I&#8217;m excited to hear that. And I think that, you know, in the age of these two and three and four hour podcasts, I really like seeing the shift back towards the shorter. You know, it&#8217;s the same way with like, streaming media, right? Like my wife and I, we really get excited when there&#8217;s an episode that&#8217;s only 25 minutes long. Right? Because, like, I just I got to go to bed at some point, people. You know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:14:18&nbsp; It&#8217;s it&#8217;s I call it consumable, right? It&#8217;s like you don&#8217;t feel overwhelmed. You could actually consume it on social media as opposed to having to go someplace and download or look longer or pop popcorn first, you know?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:14:31&nbsp; Exactly, Exactly. No. Yeah, yeah. Having these little bite sized nuggets. And, you know, there&#8217;s also the whole concept of, you know, do you need two hours to really say what you&#8217;re trying to say? Can you can you sum it up for me? And and I, you know, one of the approaches that I&#8217;m kind of doing with my show is once I have somebody on and I get to know, like, who they are and how we interact, then, you know, maybe I invite you back and we do a longer show if there&#8217;s something more for us to dig into. So, yeah, there&#8217;s just a lot of variability. I, I really I talked with Matt Medeiros, I think, last fall about my philosophy on doing the show, and there&#8217;s a lot of a salesman&#8217;s mentality to it. So in sales, to be successful at sales, you just have to deal with rejection and no&#8217;s.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:15:25&nbsp; Absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:15:26&nbsp; And so one of the things I learned early in my sales career was to collect 50 no&#8217;s a day. And then I would get to a yes. Right? And and you know, the math sometimes worked and sometimes it didn&#8217;t, depending on what I was selling. Right? But I think with doing episodes, doing a show like this, especially when you&#8217;re starting out and you&#8217;re not sure what you want to talk about or how good your interviewing skills are, then go for numbers like just start. Do a lot of interviews, talk to a lot of people and figure it out as you&#8217;re going. And yeah, just getting the repetitions in and and seeing if you enjoy it too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:16:05&nbsp; Yeah, absolutely. But I do have to say it as a podcast, if you call it a show. So you&#8217;ve, you&#8217;ve officially tipped over to that territory.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger WIlliams: Okay. I thought.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: I don&#8217;t make the rules. I don&#8217;t make the rules. Roger.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:16:19&nbsp; Okay. I thought that in order for it to be a podcast, it had to have an RSS feed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:16:25&nbsp; I don&#8217;t think so. I think it has to be called a show and put out an in regular format somewhere. I make my own decisions here, so maybe I do make the rules, I don&#8217;t know. But,</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:16:35&nbsp; You know, in your defense, you know, people are calling these shows on YouTube podcasts now, even though there’s no RSS feeds. So. All right, we&#8217;ll go with it. We&#8217;ll go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:16:43 &nbsp; Okay. Absolutely. So much fun. So if anybody doesn&#8217;t know what Kinsta is, what is Kinsta?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:16:51&nbsp; Oh wow. Okay. So if you don&#8217;t know what Kinsta is then what what&#8217;s going on?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette:&nbsp; I know right.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger WIlliams: Seriously, so Kinsta we&#8217;re a managed hosting company and we focus on WordPress. And then we&#8217;ve actually got a new product for application hosting and database hosting called Sevalla. And if people are interested, they can look that up. But I&#8217;ll really talk more about the WordPress side. That&#8217;s the majority of our business. We&#8217;ve been in business for over 12 years now. We&#8217;ve got hundreds of thousands of sites under management that were, helping people deliver to the world. And, you know, to back up for a second, what do I mean by managed hosting? So with managed hosting, we&#8217;re handling all of the infrastructure outside of WordPress. So the nginx server, the MySQL database, Linux. And then we&#8217;re also integrating with Cloudflare Enterprise. So every site on Kinsta has Cloudflare Enterprise protecting it from DDoS attacks. But also we&#8217;re utilizing their CDN and edge caching and image optimization services to really help speed up your site and make sure that anybody in the world that wants to view it can see it really quickly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:18:08&nbsp; Excellent, excellent. And you have an affiliate program, I noticed I&#8217;m actually going to put this banner up on the screen here. I&#8217;ve been digging into, it&#8217;s like I know what I&#8217;m doing sometimes, I don&#8217;t know, I surprise myself. I&#8217;ve been looking into doing more affiliate sales. Right? And I&#8217;ve signed up. I think I signed up for Kinsta. I did a whole bunch in one day. As you know, I was laid off from my last job, and I was like, where can I find some passive income? So I&#8217;m building a website, I&#8217;m doing reviews, I&#8217;m doing all the things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams: Excellent.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: And so, yeah. So here&#8217;s a way to do that. What does your affiliate program look like for people who might want to, you know, get involved with that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:18:43&nbsp; Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, and I at at risk of making this sound like a whole sales pitch all, all day. I apologize to everybody. You&#8217;re asking the questions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:18:53 I am of course, we didn&#8217;t talk about this and we didn&#8217;t talk about this beforehand either. These are just my curiosity.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:18:59&nbsp; No, I&#8217;m I&#8217;m enjoying it. So, our affiliate program is quite generous. You just go to the link that you see on the screen. kinsta.com/affiliates get signed up and we have our amazing affiliate team will review your application. And, once you&#8217;re signed up, you it&#8217;s pretty standard from an affiliate program. You get a link that has a specific code in it. So when somebody clicks that link and then signs up, you get credit for the sale. So that&#8217;s pretty standard affiliate program stuff. The way that you make money is pretty straightforward. We pay you on signup so it&#8217;s anywhere from $50 to $500 depending on which plan somebody signs up for. And then you get 10% of whatever is billed for each month for the life of that account.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:19:52&nbsp; There you go.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:19:53&nbsp; So our cheapest plan is $35 a month.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:19:57&nbsp; Least expensive marketing. Least expensive.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:20:01&nbsp; Sorry. Thank you. Thank you very much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:20:03&nbsp; That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m here for.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:20:04&nbsp; Our least expensive plan is $35 a month. So 10% of that&#8217;s $3.50 a month for the life of the account. And, you know, we don&#8217;t put any limits on when that&#8217;s going to end. We just keep paying you, as you know, you brought the business to us. So we&#8217;re going to pay you for that. So and thank you for it. You know, other than that, it&#8217;s it&#8217;s really straightforward.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:20:26&nbsp; We have, like I mentioned, a dedicated, an affiliate management team. So if you know, as you&#8217;re an affiliate, there&#8217;s ever any concerns or questions about a sign up, all you have to do is reach out and we&#8217;ll take a look at it and work with you. The, you know, one key time frame to put in there is about a two week limit. So if somebody signs up and they should have gotten credited to you, you need to reach out to us, you know, within two weeks, which isn&#8217;t an unreasonable amount of time to ask you to reach out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:20:58&nbsp; Not at all.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:20:59&nbsp; And and we&#8217;ll work with you to figure all that out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:21:02&nbsp; yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:21:03&nbsp; And then we&#8217;ve built, the, the affiliate dashboard in-house. So it&#8217;s very snappy and.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:21:08&nbsp; Nice.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:21:09 You know, and if you have feedback on, you know, in the improvements or suggestions, you know, our developers can take a look at those and choose to implement them. If, if it sounds like a good plan.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:21:20&nbsp; Nice. I have pulled up on the screen, as I&#8217;m sure you saw. Not only do you have the affiliate, you know, information on the affiliate page, but you have 17 pages that talk about doing affiliate sales and doing affiliate marketing. So it looks like a very well supported plan as well. 198 results when I just search affiliate on your blog.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:21:38&nbsp; So yeah. So backing up a second, so who is Kinsta big component of who Kinsta is, is our blog. The way that I first learned about Kinsta was when I was working for one of our competitors, and I was in tech support and in tech support. You get these issues that you haven&#8217;t seen before a lot. Right? And so you Google, hey, here&#8217;s the error code that just got thrown at me. And you start looking through stuff. And a lot of times you go to StackOverflow and these types of sites. Now you go to AI, but back about like 6 or 7 years ago Any time I would google a WordPress issue, this one blog would keep coming up with these amazing blog posts that would not only, like, explain the issue, but walk you through how to resolve it, usually in multiple different ways. And that blog was Kinsta.com.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Speaker 5 00:22:37&nbsp; Nice.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:22:37&nbsp; And. And so that got me. I mean again and again the same blog kept coming up with different answers for all these issues. And so eventually I was like, well, I should just go work for these guys. They seem to have it all figured out. And so I applied and I started off in the migrations team, worked my way to client experience, then to sales, and then we created this community position. But yeah, it really is amazing how much we work to give information back to, you know, the community, to the industry as a whole. Yes. It drives a lot of sales, but I mean, there&#8217;s still a ton of people I know that get value out of the blog who are not our customers. Not yet. Not yet. But your affiliate program is going to work on that for us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:23:29&nbsp; That&#8217;s right, that&#8217;s right. Absolutely. Now, I believe this is fairly new announcement as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:23:36&nbsp; Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:23:37&nbsp; Kinsta is now a global WordCamp sponsor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:23:40&nbsp; Yes. So this is pretty exciting. This just came out yesterday, April 1st.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:23:45&nbsp; And it was not a joke.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:23:47&nbsp; No. And it was not a joke. It was funny. We were talking about how the you know, it started April 1st, and all these reasons. And I was like, oh, do we want to hold off on doing a press release on April 1st? Probably. So it does get dismissed, but no, just really excited to again find a way to support the community through this. For those that aren&#8217;t aware, the the global WordCamp sponsors, what that means is we&#8217;re now a gold level sponsor for all of the local WordCamps around the globe. Everything except for the flagship three. And, and so that helps immediately get funding to all of those WordCamps and helps them put on those shows. It&#8217;s one less phone call that they need to make to get a sponsor signed up, and all the paperwork and rigmarole that goes through that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:24:40&nbsp; So now carte blanche, we&#8217;re just all Word Camps that aren&#8217;t flagships we&#8217;re a sponsor of and so help helping get those Word Camps to happen. And then we&#8217;re also helping the Meetups happen. So there&#8217;s I don&#8217;t know the exact number at this point. It&#8217;s it&#8217;s in the thousands, if not more of Meetups around the globe. And I think these are where the the real magic happens with WordPress, right? I help run a small Meetup here in Durango once a month. We have like anywhere from 4 to 9 people show up. But every time we have great conversations and we talk about WordPress, we talk about digital marketing, we talk about how our lives are going, where we&#8217;re going to go on vacation, and we really connect. And so Meetups are just a really exciting way to really get that super local connection happening. And as a global sponsor, we help with the fees responsible for Meetup.com, which love it or hate it. you know, I&#8217;m not going to tell you my judgment right now, but it is a useful site for organizing things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:25:51&nbsp; As an organizer, it makes it really easy for me to quickly get stuff posted up and then get people to come to the event. And then there&#8217;s another aspect of the Meetups that a little bit less known, apparently, because I keep on having people asking if we can help them with their venue costs. And I always ask, hey, did you reach out to WordPress Foundation yet? Because as global sponsors, we also help with the funding to help get some venue costs covered. and so that&#8217;s just really exciting to help promote both of those programs, WordCamps and Meetups.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:26:35&nbsp; Absolutely. That&#8217;s awesome. and it&#8217;s really nice that there are organizations like Kinsta that, you know, are so all in on the WordPress community that you&#8217;re sponsoring, contributors. You&#8217;re sponsoring the community at large as well. I, I, I&#8217;m signing the paperwork today as one of your most recent contributors that you&#8217;re sponsoring. And I want to thank you for sponsoring my time in the WordPress community. So, yeah, I had a little snafu with signing the paperwork, as we talked about before, but it will be signed as soon as we&#8217;re done here today. So it will be official very shortly, and I&#8217;ll be able to post it on social and say how wonderful it is to have organizations like Kinsta sponsoring the work that I do in WordPress. So thank you for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:27:21&nbsp; Well, you&#8217;re welcome. And, you know, and we&#8217;re proud to sponsor you and the other contributors because we know it&#8217;s an all volunteer project. Right? And, and it&#8217;s open source and it&#8217;s this is how open source works is the companies that are benefiting off of the projects. You know, you don&#8217;t have to write it&#8217;s open source software. So there&#8217;s no obligation to support the software. But I mean, it just makes sense that you you do realize, hey, our income is based off of these volunteer led projects. We really should be reaching out and helping to contribute in some way. And the thing I really enjoy about sponsoring contributors like yourselves Is its immediate impact, right? You&#8217;re not it. We could turn to a bunch of employees at Kinsta who have never used WordPress, let alone worked to make WordPress Slack and tried to contribute.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:28:24&nbsp; And you know that that could be very helpful for those individuals to learn more about WordPress and how to contribute to it. But as far as the project&#8217;s impact, it&#8217;s just not going to be as impactful as sponsoring people who have already been contributing, who know the ins and outs of the project, and then who can even, you know, in a force multiplier effect, help that many more people become part of the project. You know, we help a lot of people. We sponsor a lot of people that that do a lot of documentation work. And, you know, as somebody who kind of ran the documentation program at Kinsta for a little while. I mean, it&#8217;s it&#8217;s the most important work and it&#8217;s the most thankless work that can happen, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:29:10&nbsp; And it can be tedious. Right. So to have some incentive to have some to nobody does it because they&#8217;re expecting anything back. But to have a company like Kinsta to say, I see you and I want to support that as well. It&#8217;s just a wonderful thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:29:23&nbsp; Agreed, agreed. 100%. And I mean, it is tedious, right? I mean, because you&#8217;ve spent all this time putting some sort of documentation together and you miss, like, one step and that&#8217;s the first thing somebody points out to you. And so like, there&#8217;s a gut punch there. But but it&#8217;s important work. Right? And documentation is one of those things that it gets taken for granted. Right? When it&#8217;s there. You don&#8217;t think anything of the fact that somebody had to put a lot of work into creating this, but the fact that it&#8217;s there is literally allowing you to use some aspect of the tool. And so it&#8217;s so important. So important.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:30:02&nbsp; Right. We&#8217;re coming up on a new release soon. We are less than two weeks away from 6.8 being released. We&#8217;re in release candidate two right now, one more week after this to work on it. And then it&#8217;s like out for for being updated. And and we do know that people find more bugs once it&#8217;s been released, but we&#8217;re in that bug squashing right now. So, and the work and, and that&#8217;s part of the work I&#8217;m doing is on that release squad. And so our others. So that&#8217;s the work that you&#8217;re supporting, not just the work that I do in the community, not just the work that I do with the photo directory, for example. But, but every release as well. So, yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:30:40&nbsp; You&#8217;re welcome. And thank you again for that work that you&#8217;re doing there, because it is really critical. And again, it&#8217;s like the documentation, WordPress can get taken for granted so easily. Because it&#8217;s something that&#8217;s just there. Right. It&#8217;s been there for we&#8217;re at like 22 years now. You just go to WordPress.org and you download the software and you can get to work on it. But there&#8217;s a lot of time and effort and people involved with making that happen. As far as 6.8&nbsp; is going. How are you feeling about it? I know that there&#8217;s been like some, you know, Matt has put out some ideas that maybe we&#8217;re going to do one release a year or something. Do you think that there&#8217;s enough people helping with testing out and and checking for bugs at this point?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:31:29&nbsp; I mean, there are right there. There&#8217;s always people who are in there testing. We have, you know, quite a few people who are doing that kind of thing. You can always use more because we can&#8217;t test every scenario. We can&#8217;t test it against, you know, you we don&#8217;t know how it interacts with every single plugin in the world because we can&#8217;t test it on all those things. So the more people test it with those things now never, ever, ever updated on your live site please. I mean, take our word for it. That is not the right way to do it, but open it in a test environment. Use the playground to do that. Use the there&#8217;s a plugin you can use for testing. It&#8217;s all in the guidelines on the 6.8. If you go to WordPress.org /news you will see it there. the most recent release, candidate two, has all of the information to do that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:32:12&nbsp; so the more people I mean, I&#8217;m never going to say we have enough testers, never. So get out there and test it. If you haven&#8217;t tested it yet, we want to hear your feedback. Good, bad, ugly. We want to know because we want to make sure that what gets released on April 15th, it just happens to coincide with Tax day here in the US. What gets released on April 15th? We want it to be the best it can possibly be. And although you can never foresee everything, the more that we can take care of prior to that day, the better. Everybody will have it on release day, so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:32:44&nbsp; No. Absolutely. And I, you know, I know one of the things that encourages me Kinsta we include staging environments with all of our sites. So people like, go ahead, create a staging environment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:32:56&nbsp; Test it out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:32:57&nbsp; Install the beta plugin and just like. Look at the site like and test it out. Are your forms working? If you have a calendar or something like that? Test everything that&#8217;s really critical for your business and make sure that it works. You know, make sure that when you fill out a form, you get the email because.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:33:17&nbsp; Test it against your themes, all of those things. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And so yeah. So that&#8217;s the work that we&#8217;re doing right now. It&#8217;s it&#8217;s always something. Right? We just onboarded new a whole bunch of new photo moderators. And the queue has been sitting at zero at the end of every day. We have so many people moderating photos. We have over 20,000 photos now in the photo directory. And yeah, it used to be sometimes I would log in and be like, oh, there&#8217;s 300 to moderate. Well, let me see how many I can do in 15 or 20 minutes. Now I log in. I&#8217;m like the only ones I have to look at are the ones that are held in moderate or held as flagged. Because other people in the United States or outside of the United States can&#8217;t see those. It&#8217;s something to do with laws and things. And so usually it&#8217;s a picture of an animal. Not always. sometimes it&#8217;s things that cannot be released. Of course. for any number of reasons. But, I would say and all of the photos I have not allowed through out of the hundreds that get flagged only two. So it it&#8217;s AI driven. What gets put there versus other and AI is very conservative and so but other than that you know we just have people just getting in there and it&#8217;s all volunteer, as you said, moderating the photos under the photo directory. All of that is voluntary. So it&#8217;s a great program. Open source is great as long as people are contributing to it. And companies like Kinsta to make that a lot easier to do. So thanks for all that you do in the community. So you&#8217;re sponsoring Post Status, you&#8217;re sponsoring, globally. You&#8217;re sponsoring contributors. Goodness gracious. That&#8217;s awesome. I&#8217;d love to hear that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:34:56&nbsp; Oh, well. Yeah. No, it&#8217;s it&#8217;s really exciting. It&#8217;s something that a lot of us have been pushing for, for, you know, some time and then, Yeah. No, we we realized, hey, this is a good decision to make. not just for Kinsta, but for the community. So, yeah, it&#8217;s we&#8217;re happy to help.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:35:14&nbsp; So any questions? I know we&#8217;ve had a couple of comments, but if you have questions, we have just a few more minutes before I let Roger go back to petting his dogs and doing his work. I will say, WordCamp Canada says “Kinsta docs and tutorials are among the best. Super useful.” I don&#8217;t know who is logged in today as WordCamp Canada, but those are lovely words that they&#8217;ve had to share with you, which is awesome.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:35:37&nbsp; Know that. Thank you. And I&#8217;ll make sure that that gets passed on to the team. We&#8217;ve got a team of we&#8217;ve got multiple full time writers on staff. Then we also do, contract people to help with writing as well. But, It&#8217;s a very full time project for us. We have in Slack. We have a content feedback channel that&#8217;s internal. But any time, like a customer lets us know and support. Hey, you know, this documentation or something is. Seems a little off. All of us at Kinsta can go into the content feedback channel and share that feedback. You know, and do our best to kind of try and help make suggestions that are helpful for the writers. But the turnaround on those is really quick, and we want to make sure that the documentation is is up to date and useful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:36:29&nbsp; Sounds like a great team.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams: Oh, absolutely.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: My my last comment is that I think only the best podcasters also have lava lamps in the background, because I have one and I see yours.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:36:42&nbsp; Yes. No. The lava lamp was an absolutely critical piece for the set. It&#8217;s just fun to have. It always reminds me, though, I think it was Cloudflare. Who, I don&#8217;t know if it was an April Fool&#8217;s joke post, but I remember years ago they had released something that the way that they do their random number generator is they have a series of lava lamps, and they use that for actually they scan those and then that&#8217;s how they come up with their random number generation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette&nbsp; 00:37:12&nbsp; That&#8217;s funny. Claudia says “that the lava lamp is also a critical piece of equipment in her office” So. Absolutely. I don&#8217;t know if you can tell, but right in front of my lava lamp is a chicken lamp.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:37:23&nbsp; Okay. Just barely.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:37:24&nbsp; And the egg behind, like the egg coming out of the chicken. Is the light bulb.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:37:31&nbsp; Perfect, perfect.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:37:35&nbsp; Yeah. There&#8217;s always something you can focus on in my background to talk about, that&#8217;s for sure. Anyway, anything else, go ahead.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:37:41&nbsp; You have a great diversity background there. I&#8217;m just I&#8217;m really happy that it&#8217;s not a bookshelf of books, that that you&#8217;re trying to project that you read.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:37:52&nbsp; I never read. No, of course I do. and I did, once upon a time play the guitar. But, those belong to my father. And I joke that when I put them on the wall, I suddenly became a developer because every developer has guitars in their background.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:38:10&nbsp; Okay. All right. I didn&#8217;t know about that theory, but it does. It does seem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:38:14&nbsp; Now you&#8217;ll now you&#8217;ll notice. Now you&#8217;ll notice. I&#8217;ve we&#8217;ve also been asked here “how&#8217;s your Durango WordPress meetup going” since you are an organizer out there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:38:23&nbsp; Yeah. Thank you for asking. You know, it&#8217;s going well. I think we&#8217;re now I think we&#8217;ve done eight, in a row, so consecutively, I almost dropped the ball, on this month on April&#8217;s, but, we have it. It&#8217;s happening on Friday. It&#8217;s going good. You know, organizing events for any event organizers out there, is challenging, And I feel you and you know, the Meetups are a much more simplified, simplified version of an event than like a WordCamp or something. But it does still take work, right? You need to find the venue. You need to get people to show up. You need to try and have something worthwhile to talk about while you&#8217;re there. And so, and so it&#8217;s a lot of fun. It&#8217;s also a challenge. And, I think one of the best pieces of advice somebody told me was to get co-organizers as soon as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette00:39:19&nbsp; Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:39:20&nbsp; And I say it&#8217;s the best advice. I still don&#8217;t know if it is because I haven&#8217;t gotten any co-organizers yet, but I feel like, wow, that would probably help a lot.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:39:30&nbsp; So it does, I promise.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:39:31&nbsp; Okay. All right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:39:32&nbsp; Absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:39:33&nbsp; If anybody has any tips or tricks or advice, please feel free to reach out. Kinsta buys the lunch. So that&#8217;s a pretty cool little perk for coming. And we&#8217;ve got a really cool venue. It&#8217;s EsoTerra Cidery. They have a taproom in downtown Durango, and it&#8217;s a really wonderful venue. Lots of nice seats. They have a nice little lunch menu and they give us the space for free to use. They&#8217;re very happy to host us. So big shout out to Eso Terra. Thank you so much. They make really good cider. if that&#8217;s your jam. But no alcoholic drinks purchased for people during the lunch, by the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:40:18&nbsp; Makes sense.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:40:19&nbsp; But, yeah, I think, you know, one of the challenges is coming up with topics that apply to the group as a whole, right? And so we&#8217;ll have a variety of people, from beginners to advanced WordPress users. How do we come up with topics that attract all of those people and engages all of them?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:40:41&nbsp; That is the challenge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:40:43&nbsp; Yeah. Any advice, any tips you figured out?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:40:47 Um,&nbsp; mostly I figured out to just aim for the middle, basically. And the people, you know, the people that are overqualified for that will tend to either just not come. Which is sad, but they tend to contribute to the conversation. And people who have not reached that level are still learning it. So that&#8217;s basically the best advice I could offer. Or to split, you know, and have a couple of discussions, per conversation, you know, per, per event. So.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:41:19&nbsp; Okay, okay. No, I like that. And I&#8217;ve kind of tracked towards that. The other thing I&#8217;ve done is I&#8217;ve, I&#8217;ve brought in some people from outside of WordPress a little bit to talk about like marketing and branding strategy. And really helped to expand the group and the topics a little bit. So it&#8217;s.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:41:38&nbsp; I even had somebody come once and talk about business insurance.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:41:43&nbsp; Okay. And errors and omissions. Which is a big thing for website developers. So.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:41:48&nbsp; Excellent, excellent. Yeah. No I and I think getting more people from the business community involved is great. Durango and I&#8217;m outside of Durango. I&#8217;m in a little town called Minkus. We&#8217;re very rural. I think Durango&#8217;s got 17,000 people. Minkus got 1200 people. And one thing that still just drives me crazy is how few local businesses have a website. even, like, even a Wix website, they don&#8217;t even have that. They&#8217;ll have a Facebook page. And, and so that it breaks my heart a little bit. You know, I want to at some point be like, hey, I&#8217;ll build your website for you, but I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m kind of not in this stage of building websites right now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:42:29&nbsp; Same.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:42:31&nbsp; Yeah, maybe I&#8217;ll help. Maybe I&#8217;ll help.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:42:34&nbsp; Probably. and we do have, what do you call it? Justification? Vindicate. I don&#8217;t the right word. But anyway, “right about the developers having guitars in their walls. Roger could confirm he doesn&#8217;t have any on his office wall but four on another wall.” So there you go. I mean, there&#8217;s just something about it. And it&#8217;s interesting because development and ma and music go hand in hand because of the mathematical equalities to both of those. So it makes sense that somebody who is, you know, mathematically inclined, would be interested in both of those things. Chords are very math, mathematical.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:43:10&nbsp; So absolutely. And maybe this explains why I&#8217;m not a good developer because I do not know how to play any music.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:43:17 That&#8217;s okay. You can go to our Spotify and add some songs that you know and, and contribute musically that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:43:24&nbsp; Absolutely. Yeah. No, I love listening to music, but yeah. No, just I tried learning piano a bunch of years ago. I want to say like 12 years ago, had an instructor come to the house, got full weighted keys and everything. And, Yeah, I just couldn&#8217;t get past, like, Tinker, tinkle, tinkle a little bell or something like that. Oh, man. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:43:45&nbsp; No, I have an upright grand in my other room that I. It was my grandfather&#8217;s from the 20s, 1920s. Not not 2020. So it&#8217;s a oh, gosh, it&#8217;s over 100 years old now. My piano. But yeah. And I learned when I was little. So I don&#8217;t play very often. I live in a condo. And my neighbors would not be happy if I was banging on that piano at night, but, but it is nice to have around. So, any last any last words? Anything last things you&#8217;d like to share with us Roger?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:44:12&nbsp; you know, I it would I&#8217;d be remiss without mentioning that, we just rolled out a new product called Kinsta Automatic Updates. This is an add on feature to your website at Kinsta, and this does automatic updates of your themes and plugins, with the caveat that it does visual regression testing. So we take a screenshot before the update. We update it and then we take a screenshot afterwards if there&#8217;s a difference that means something went wrong. We revert the update and then we notify you of of which plugin caused the issue so you can start troubleshooting it.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: Oh nice.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams: I&#8217;m really excited about that. You know, I was really excited about WordPress 6.5 when we came out with the auto rollback feature. that only catches PHP errors, which is I mean, it&#8217;s still massive. You should at least have that automatically on, I think. but with this feature, it just adds a little bit more to it. So it&#8217;ll catch, you know, maybe a plugin breaks a CSS, feature or something. And, and so the site&#8217;s not necessarily throwing up PHP error. It&#8217;s still running, but it&#8217;s broken. And if you&#8217;re spending a lot of money on your marketing and advertising, having a landing page broken is really annoying. So this helps wit that.Yeah. So if you have questions about it, come to kinsts.com and take a look to automatic updates. That&#8217;s pretty exciting. The team did a really great job.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:45:34&nbsp; And if people want to follow up with you, what&#8217;s the best place to get in touch with you Roger?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:45:38&nbsp; LinkedIn. I&#8217;ll be honest with you. So I&#8217;m in the Post Status group. You can DM me there. Thank you for giving me more time in Slack. But honestly, like LinkedIn, I love getting contacted there. I enjoy spending time in LinkedIn. So yeah, reach out to me there. And if you want to be on a Kinsta talk, reach out and we&#8217;ll work something out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:45:59&nbsp; Awesome. Thank you so much for your time today. Again, if people are interested, they can go to Kinsta.com and if they&#8217;re interested in the affiliate program it&#8217;s Kinsta.com/affiliates. So thank you for all your sponsorships, all that you&#8217;re doing and all that you do to highlight some pretty amazing people in WordPress. I appreciate your time today and all that you do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:46:19&nbsp; Thank you very much, Michelle, and I appreciate you and all the work that you&#8217;ve done. And thank you for having me on the show.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:46:25&nbsp; My pleasure. Thank you. We&#8217;ll see everybody else next week.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams 00:46:29&nbsp; Bye&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: Bye.</p>\n<p>This article, <a href="https://poststatus.com/post-status-happiness-hour-session-twenty-three-2/">Post Status Happiness Hour Session Twenty Four</a>, was published at  <a href="https://poststatus.com">Post Status</a> — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 17 Apr 2025 21:30:27 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Olivia Bisset";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:60:"Post Status: Post Status Happiness Hour Session Twenty Three";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://poststatus.com/?p=163414";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:71:"https://poststatus.com/post-status-happiness-hour-session-twenty-three/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:56604:"<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<p><a href="https://poststatus.com/category/planet/#h-transcript">Transcript</a> ↓</p>\n\n\n\n<p>In this episode of the Post Status Happiness Hour, host Michelle Frechette interviews Cami MacNamara a seasoned web designer and solopreneur. Cami shares insights into her business, Web Cam LLC, and her new initiative, &#8220;Web Designer Habits,&#8221; which aims to help web designers develop productive habits. They discuss the importance of accountability, time management techniques like time blocking and the Pomodoro technique, and the benefits of joining online and local networking groups. The episode also teases a collaborative project between Michelle and Cammy involving a planner designed to support web designers in maintaining their habits.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-top-takeaways">Top Takeaways: </h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li><strong>Small Changes Lead to Big Improvements –</strong> Cami emphasized the power of incremental progress, whether in business, design, or personal productivity. Tackling tasks in small steps can make overwhelming projects more manageable and sustainable.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Be Prepared for the Unexpected –</strong> Michelle shared practical travel and everyday preparedness tips, from keeping essential items in the car to ensuring that your luggage complies with airline regulations. Thinking ahead can save time, stress, and even money.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Documenting Processes is Key –</strong> The discussion touched on the importance of writing down systems and workflows, especially for solopreneurs. Whether through standard operating procedures (SOPs) or simple notes, having a record helps maintain efficiency and organization.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Community and Support Matter –</strong> Both Michelle and Cami highlighted the value of connection in professional spaces, particularly within the WordPress and web design communities. Engaging with peers through newsletters, Facebook groups, and live discussions fosters learning, growth, and mutual encouragement.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-mentioned-in-the-show">Mentioned In The Show:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li><a href="https://webcami.com/">Web Cami, LLC</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="http://webdesignerhabits.com">webdesignerhabits.com</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://streamyard.com/">StreamYard</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://webcamicafe.com/">WebCamiCafe</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://www.godaddy.com/">GoDaddy</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://us.shein.com/">Shein</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://www.pomodorotechnique.com/">Pomodoro Technique</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://wordpress.tv/2023/11/13/its-about-time/">WordPress TV</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://managewp.com/">Managed WP</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://theadminbar.com/">Admin Bar</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://www.wpbeaverbuilder.com/">Beaver Builder</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://calendly.com/">Calendly</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://wpcoffeetalk.com/">WPCoffeeTalk</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class="wp-block-columns has-theme-palette-8-background-color has-background is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-3 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex">\n<div class="wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow">\n<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f64f.png" alt="🙏" class="wp-smiley" /> Sponsor: <a href="https://poststat.us/a2-hosting">A2 Hosting</a></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>A2Hosting offers solutions for WordPress and WooCommerce that are both blazing fast and ultra-reliable. WordPress can be easily deployed on ANY web hosting plan from A2: Shared, VPS, or Dedicated. A2 also offers Managed WordPress and WooCommerce Hosting. Take a look at a2hosting.com today!</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class="wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow">\n<img width="752" height="470" src="https://poststatus.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/imageedit_1_6433774706-752x470.png" alt="A2 Hosting" class="wp-image-104073" />A2 Hosting\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-you-can-follow-post-status-and-our-guests-on-social-media"><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f426.png" alt="🐦" class="wp-smiley" /> You can follow Post Status and our guests on Social Media:</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/webcami/">Cami MacNamara</a> (Owner &amp; Designer, <a href="https://webcami.com/">WebCami LLC</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://twitter.com/michelleames">Michelle Frechette</a>&nbsp;(Director of Community Relations,&nbsp;<a href="https://twitter.com/post_status">Post Status</a>)</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://twitter.com/lemonadecode">Olivia Bisset</a>&nbsp;(Intern,&nbsp;<a href="https://twitter.com/post_status">Post Status</a>)</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The <strong>Post Status</strong> podcast is geared toward WordPress professionals, with interviews, news, and deep analysis. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f4dd.png" alt="📝" class="wp-smiley" /></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href="https://poststatus.com/category/post-status-podcasts/">Browse our archives</a>, and don’t forget to subscribe via <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/post-status-draft-wordpress/id976403008">iTunes</a>, <a href="https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS8ySkU5c2M4UA">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/PostStatus">YouTube</a>, <a href="http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/krogsgard/post-status-draft-wordpress-podcast">Stitcher</a>, <a href="https://wordpress-post-status-draft-podcast.simplecast.com/">Simplecast</a>, or <a href="https://feeds.simplecast.com/2JE9sc8P">RSS</a>. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f3a7.png" alt="🎧" class="wp-smiley" /></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-transcript">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:00:01&nbsp; And we&#8217;re alive with this week&#8217;s Post Status Happiness Hour with my good friend Cami McNamara and Cami does a lot. Hi Cami, I know you do a lot of different things. You have your agency and all these, you know, other things, podcasting and all the things you&#8217;re doing now. But today we&#8217;re really going to talk about your web designer habits, how you came up with that, what some of them might look like, how people can get in on that, and maybe some things that we&#8217;re going to tease about what you and I are working on together too. So.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:00:30&nbsp; Well, that sounds great. Thank you.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:00:33&nbsp; Yeah. Welcome to the Happiness Hour. It&#8217;s good to have you here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:00:36&nbsp; Yeah, it&#8217;s great to be here. I&#8217;m so. I&#8217;m always happy to talk to you, Michelle. Like, anytime we get to spend time together, it makes my day.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:00:44&nbsp; Absolutely. I feel exactly the same way for. For people who haven&#8217;t met you, who don&#8217;t, you know, as equated with who you are. Can you just give us a little bit about where you&#8217;re located, what you do with WordPress, maybe you know anything that you want to mention about your life? I know you got a really cool dog like all those. Just fill us in on the details for a minute.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:01:03&nbsp; Sure. Well, I am located. My name is Cami McNamara and otherwise known as Web Cami. So my business is Web Cam, LLC and I have been building websites since 2000 and started my business in 2002. So I just had my 23rd anniversary in business. Oh I&#8217;m a solopreneur. I build websites for small businesses and nonprofits all over the United States, but I&#8217;d say the majority of my clients are here in the Seattle area. So I live in Seattle, in a neighborhood called Alki Beach, and I often on social media and posting pictures of my neighborhood because, well, I just love it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:01:48&nbsp; Because it&#8217;s beautiful.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:01:49&nbsp; Thank you. I mean, it&#8217;s like I live at a California beach in a big city. So it&#8217;s kind of nice. Much smaller scale. Not not, you know, nobody&#8217;s hanging tenning out in the water.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:02:03&nbsp; It&#8217;s a little chilly up there for that. Probably.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:02:05&nbsp; Little chilly. There&#8217;s a lot of cold plungers that, You know, I do. I did it this year on New Year&#8217;s Eve, but. Or New Year&#8217;s Day. But I&#8217;m not planning to do that again. So that&#8217;s it. I have a husband. I&#8217;ve been married for 35 years, and I have a dog who&#8217;s a ten year old Labrador named Tank. I also share a lot of pictures of him, and I have a 28 year old son.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:02:32&nbsp; Awesome. And everybody comments on the, the parking meter behind you, so.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara: Oh yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: Because I know everybody&#8217;s like, what&#8217;s the parking meter about?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:02:45&nbsp; Okay so yes. Yeah. So my parking meter back here, my aunt, worked for Rockwell Industries back in the 70s. And when I was a little kid, she gave me that parking meter. Now, my grandmother had this parking meter, the same kind, but she made it into a lamp. And you&#8217;d have to put your you&#8217;d have to put coins in it to turn the lamp on. And as a as a kid, I was obsessed with that. So my aunt gave me that. You can see the faded number eight. I put like a sticker on there for my eighth birthday, and it&#8217;s there to remind me to keep my time top of mind all day long.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:03:27&nbsp; Which is one of the web habits designer habits. But you have. So one of the things that I was just, like, enamored with when you came out with that last year, I think you called it WP Habits to begin with.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:03:40&nbsp; Yeah, I called it Habits WP. I had, I had WP Habits, I still have all those domains.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:03:47&nbsp; So yes, they can all point to the new one. Right. And now it&#8217;s web designer habits.com Correct?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:03:54&nbsp; Yes. Yes because I&#8217;m really sharing habits that aren&#8217;t just for a WordPress designer. They&#8217;re really for anybody who&#8217;s doing web design and and how it came to be was, you know, I&#8217;ve been blogging about running my business for quite a while, and I wrote, I did a blog post about habits, but my friend Anne Marie and I went on a women&#8217;s business retreat with Kim Doyle in Costa Rica a couple of years ago, and I told her I want to figure out some way to share what I know and what I do, but I am not going to have time to develop big, long courses. I have a hard time taking big, long courses. What can I put? How can I put this in little tidbits for people and also for myself to work on each week? And that&#8217;s kind of how it was born.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:04:45&nbsp; That makes sense. I loved when you first came out with that. I signed up right away. I get the emails every week. And then I don&#8217;t you keep giving me credit for it. I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s really true or not, but I was like, wow, you really have to have a whole website for this where there&#8217;s an art and archive. So like if somebody&#8217;s starting now, they can still go back and see the ones they missed. And, I kind of have a little bit more to.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:05:10&nbsp; Well, it was, it was kind of always on my to do list. But you&#8217;re the person who lit the fire underneath me to go ahead and do that. And now, in addition to my website, I am building a circle community for this. So I&#8217;m hoping to have that launch in the next few weeks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:05:29&nbsp; Very cool. So there&#8217;ll be a whole community about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:05:32&nbsp; Yes. Because you know what? You know, what helps you get your habits in order is having accountability with others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:05:39&nbsp; Yeah, that&#8217;s very true. That is very true. Do you want to bring the site up on and to share your screen? And we&#8217;ll take a look at it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:05:45&nbsp; Yeah, sure. How I&#8217;m not sure how to do that, but that&#8217;s okay. Do you what do you want to do it on your end? It&#8217;s if if that&#8217;s easier for you, is it? I just haven&#8217;t been in StreamYard and.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:05:59&nbsp; Yeah. That&#8217;s okay.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:05:59&nbsp; In a long time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:06:01&nbsp; Okay, so I&#8217;ve got it up. I can no longer see you, so I&#8217;m going to scroll and let you explain what we&#8217;re looking at then okay.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:06:06&nbsp; Well basically this is just where you sign up. and I, I like big fonts and I cannot lie. Okay. I&#8217;ll just say that right off the bat.&nbsp; So when I designed this, I really wanted it to be bold and impactful. But basically this is where you sign up. There&#8217;s just a little bit of a story about me and where, how I came to be here. I have a podcast which I have been doing, off and on for a couple of years. I share the habit each week, and then I also report on how I did adopting the habit, and that&#8217;s under the blog section. So that&#8217;s kind of new. And I&#8217;m building out resources. And as I said before, I&#8217;m going to start a circle community for this, because I just kind of feel like there&#8217;s a need for it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:06:58&nbsp; And you have, you have your, WebCamiCafe over on Facebook.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:07:02&nbsp; Yes I do I started a Facebook group basically for friends that I was making as I became a GoDaddy Pro ambassador. This is back in 2018. And you know, I kept going to WOrdCamps and kept meeting people and friends of friends or adding folks, and it&#8217;s just really a nice small networking group and a good place just to meet other web designers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:07:32&nbsp; Yeah, for sure. And I mean, people are posting really cool things in there all the time and asking for feedback and having great conversations about some of those things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:07:40&nbsp; Yeah, it&#8217;s it because the numbers are small, it&#8217;s kind of more intimate and I really like that part of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:07:48&nbsp; I did too, and I will say, like, I&#8217;m not really doing a lot of web design anymore. If I do, it&#8217;s mostly my own things that I&#8217;m, that I&#8217;m doing, you know, that kind of thing. But, I think we take this off. There we go. but I still, even though I&#8217;m not, like, web designer habit girl, finding so many of the things that you share to still be relevant, even if you aren&#8217;t a designer or a small business owner. So there are constantly reminders in there of things that I need to be doing, even if I don&#8217;t have clientele. I&#8217;m not designing for others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:08:22&nbsp; Well, and and you have contributed to those things. So when I listen to you speak at WordCamp US and you instructed me to stop saying I&#8217;m sorry all the time, I felt like you were just talking to me, and I, I came back and made that a habit that everyone should adopt, because so many times we&#8217;re replying to our clients and emails and saying, oh, I&#8217;m sorry, I&#8217;m sorry, I&#8217;m sorry. And really, we&#8217;re not necessarily the ones that are sorry. It&#8217;s just comes out of your mouth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:08:55&nbsp; Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:08:56&nbsp; As a habit..</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:08:57&nbsp; Right. There&#8217;s there&#8217;s much better language, more empowering language, stronger language you can do to help move things forward rather than just saying, I&#8217;m sorry, especially if we weren&#8217;t the ones to make the mistake or have an error kind of thing. Yeah. For sure. I also say don&#8217;t say thank you as often and and I don&#8217;t mean that as like don&#8217;t be grateful. Because certainly gratitude is something that I use all the time. But when you normally would say thank you just because that&#8217;s not a good use of thank you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:09:26&nbsp; Right. There&#8217;s other, more empowering language you can use, especially like when somebody buys your software and their automated emails says, thank you for purchasing XYZ. Yeah. But of course we&#8217;re grateful that they purchased it. But do they care that we&#8217;re grateful for the purchase? No. They want to know what can I do with this and how can I make my life better because of it? And so, you know, I just talk about some of those different things. So those are the things I talked about that I think you really liked at WordCamp US. .</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:09:50&nbsp; Yeah. No, it was fantastic. It really made a strong impression on me. And yeah, I&#8217;m always listening for things that I&#8217;m learning from other people that I know are habits I need to adopt. And selfishly, you know, creating this group is a way to keep me accountable to myself. And yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:10:11&nbsp; Yeah, for sure, I have, I actually hired an accountability coach this year. Not because I&#8217;m, you know, don&#8217;t want things to move forward, but because of ADHD brain and out of sight, out of mindedness and things like that.&nbsp; I&#8217;m writing a novel, and I want to make sure that I keep moving forward on the things that I want to keep moving forward on. And so she and I meet every other week on Zoom, and she helps me keep moving forward because I&#8217;ve only accountable to other people for their things. I&#8217;m never accountable to myself for my own things because in my brain, everybody else comes first, right? So when I have to now be accountable to her. It means I&#8217;m not. I&#8217;m being accountable to me through her as a proxy, and I keep moving things forward, if that makes any sense.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:10:56&nbsp; Right. Yeah, it&#8217;s so true. Because, you know, we all start off our day with the best intentions, right? And we start off strong every day. And, you know, a lot of these habits that I&#8217;ve been nurturing myself. You know, the dream is to be on autopilot. Right? With some of them. And so whatever can help you, whether it&#8217;s you hiring a coach to help you, it just it just strength strengthens your resolve with you for sure thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:11:29&nbsp; It really does. And I think that it&#8217;s just a way of helping you move forward on your own projects as well, because I think, I mean, everybody does, but I, I can only speak from the women I know who talk about these kinds of things. I think as women, we always put ourselves last and we never prioritize those things. And so to have somebody help me stay accountable to listening to myself and moving myself forward, I think, became an important thing for me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:11:54&nbsp; Yeah, I agree. I mean, my, my friend Anne Marie and I, we sing to each other in Marco Polo, during the week when we go on walks, just to be accountable, accountable and say, hey, it&#8217;s really cold out here, but I&#8217;m walking anyway, so I yeah, I have accountability buddies, including you all the time.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:12:15&nbsp; Yep. And and now we&#8217;ve got a third person helping us actually stay accountable to our project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:12:21&nbsp; That&#8217;s right. Because you can only imagine that it&#8217;s a little difficult for us to stay on topic when we&#8217;re meeting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:12:29&nbsp; Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:12:30&nbsp; Sometimes. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:12:32&nbsp; For sure. So, so about that project, do you want to tease that out a little bit?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:12:37&nbsp; Right. So, Michelle reached out to me and said, hey, have you thought about doing a some sort of planner for the habits that you&#8217;re working on and and of course I it had entered my mind. But you know, I&#8217;m a solopreneur. I manage like 200 websites in my care plan. There&#8217;s just so much on my plate. And Michelle said, I have this wonderful photography and I could work in tips, and I was all in the minute she said that. So we&#8217;ve been meeting every Friday for quite a while, talking about plans, and then we brought in a friend to help us get things rolling, and we actually have a date to come up with.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:13:17&nbsp; We set our first deadline.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:13:19&nbsp; Right after. But we we have a date to come up with ideas for our layout. And both Michelle and I love planners. We already had a plethora of planners, but we both ordered a bunch to play around with and see what we liked.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:13:36&nbsp; Yeah, exactly. And I made the mistake of just buying a bunch, whereas you were really strategic and went to the went to the store and took pictures of a bunch, which was yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:13:45&nbsp; I did that too, but I also I did order to you. I ordered a few like habit trackers and you know everybody. There&#8217;s also online options and notion and you know just using a Google Sheets or something like that. But I, I do think it&#8217;s it would be a fun to come up with something to accompany this material.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:14:09&nbsp; Yeah, absolutely. Now, I think it was last week I received a, the Anti Planner in the mail and I posted it online saying, I don&#8217;t know where this came from if you sent this to me. Thank you so much. Did I tell you my confession about it? No.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:14:25&nbsp; No. Did you order it and forget?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:14:28&nbsp; Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:14:31&nbsp; It was part of my Shein order. But it came separately. It didn&#8217;t say Shein. And I was like, where did this come from? And I just went over my purchase history, that I was like, well, I&#8217;ll be darned. I bought that for myself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:14:43&nbsp; Oh my gosh, that&#8217;s so funny. I would do that. I would do that 100%.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:14:49&nbsp; Anne Marie says I love the Web Designer Habits website Cami, me too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:14:54&nbsp; Aw thank you Ann Marie.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:14:55&nbsp; For sure. And Daveden said he watched my WordCamp US talk and needs to improve the way he overused to thank you. So yeah, I think we all kind of do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:15:04&nbsp; Yes, 100%. I&#8217;ve probably been doing that my entire life, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:15:10&nbsp; Yeah. Now I know, like I see tips all the time. I&#8217;ve written tips. I used to, you know, blog for the local newspaper, business tips, things like that. What are some of your favorite habits that either you&#8217;ve incorporated into your life or that you just think are so cool that other people should do them too? Like, do you have like 2 or 3 that you would go? I think that&#8217;s one of my favorites.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:15:32&nbsp; Yeah. Time blocking there. I&#8217;ve heard a lot of people be very resistant to time blocking.&nbsp; And every habit doesn&#8217;t work for everyone. Right. But for me, I needed time blocking. Time blocking has been something that really shapes my day every single day. It helps me when clients send me incoming requests to say, I&#8217;m going to work on this on Wednesday at 4:00, because that&#8217;s when I have maintenance on my schedule. So I absolutely love time blocking, and that has been a huge part of me being productive as a single solopreneur. The next one is the Pomodoro technique. So I am not sitting for hours at a time because, you know, we can all get in the flow and not want to leave a project. And, I remember in the early days having all kinds of neck pain, and eye strain and everything else. It just is so important to take care of your back and everything else. And you can use the Pomodoro Technique in concert with your time blocking, and make sure that you&#8217;re stepping away and getting up every 25 minutes. So working 25 minutes with a five minute break. Yeah, works well for me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:16:58&nbsp; Yeah. Now I do calendar blocking, but I, I use it to, to like, block my calendar from other people being able to schedule on my calendar just to get and not assign particular tasks, but just so I can work through my list of things that I need to do, or honestly like to sleep in a little bit on that morning if I need to. Before I was doing that, I would just say I give people my calendar links and I would wake up in the morning and I felt 15.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:17:26&nbsp; Yeah, you have no time. You have no time to work because.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:17:28&nbsp; Yeah, I was like, what? Am I going to run to the bathroom or have lunch at that point, you know. So yeah, for sure. Oh look. Yeah, we have it&#8217;s very karmic that, Crystals got in at, the first thing he heard was the Pomodoro technique. Not the best was dealing with his ADHD most times. Trust me, we know. We know we are. We are right there with you. You are not alone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:17:51&nbsp; Right? I if somebody wants to see how I time block, if you go to a WordPress TV, the WordCamp TV, site, I&#8217;m getting that wrong. But, I spoke at Vancouver 2023, Vancouver WordCamp, and I shared in my slides. My time blocking techniques.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:18:14&nbsp; Oh, cool. I&#8217;ve got that right here. Hold on. I will put that in the chat. Okay. Like I&#8217;m. On it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:18:20&nbsp; Thank you for doing all the things I need to practice with StreamYard. I&#8217;m a huge fan. Now that I heard their music for testing your speakers, and anybody else who&#8217;s done that will know what I&#8217;m talking about.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:18:33&nbsp; I have never done that until today when you told me to do that and I was like, oh, that&#8217;s pretty cool, actually. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:18:39&nbsp; They have a whole song just about testing there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:18:42&nbsp; You&#8217;re testing your speakers. You&#8217;re testing your speakers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:18:45&nbsp; Yeah, that&#8217;s pretty hilarious with, like, a band and everything.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:18:49&nbsp; So yeah, I know they they I&#8217;m gonna guess it&#8217;s AI generated, but even so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:18:53&nbsp; Yes. Pretty cool. It&#8217;s great. It was hilarious.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:18:57&nbsp; Some of my favorite things I&#8217;ve learned is over the years, especially when I was freelancing and I could write off so many of my expenses was to keep an envelope in my car with the month listed on it. So if it was, you know, March, I had that envelope either in my purse or in my car. So that like whenever I was shopping, picking up things, I would put the receipts in there. For that month so that I could then at the end of the month, tally things up, keep track of it. And when it came to tax time, I wasn&#8217;t going where all the receipts and what did I do and how much money. And I was a step ahead or two steps ahead of the game at that point in time. So that was one that I really liked. The other thing that I have taught myself recently, so we&#8217;ll see if it hangs on as I habit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:19:40 I have a tendency like throughout the day I as I&#8217;m on calls, I make little notes. And now at the end of the day, instead of just having this giant pile of notes, I&#8217;m transcribing them into action items and keeping track of them in my little like method of how I&#8217;m trying to keep on top of tasks. So I don&#8217;t know what was that I had to do? And where is that piece of paper? And I can&#8217;t read my handwriting and all those things so that while it&#8217;s still fresh in my mind, I&#8217;m translating things into tasks because otherwise things fall through the cracks. And I&#8217;m not a fan of letting things fall through the cracks.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:20:12 Yeah, that&#8217;s a great plan. You know, it&#8217;s kind of like at the end of every day, I&#8217;m always thinking, what promises did I make today? Right? And yeah, it&#8217;s a it&#8217;s a very helpful to get all your tasks actually on your calendar too. So you got the tasks and you have them scheduled.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:20:33&nbsp; Yes. Yes, exactly. And I discovered today that my, Google calendar was not able to send me those two minute warnings before an event happened, and I was running late to everything because I was relying on those before. And so I was able to troubleshoot that today. And now I&#8217;m getting notifications on my calendar. So sometimes you just have to dig in and figure out what&#8217;s wrong and how to fix it, that&#8217;s for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:20:58&nbsp; Right. And you know, we get so involved in our day to day that if you don&#8217;t get that ping right before something happens, you can completely forget.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:21:07&nbsp; Yes, exactly. Now, one of the things that you do as an agency is you actually have care plans. And how many websites are you caring for?&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:21:17&nbsp; Over 200 a month. And, you know, I, I incrementally built that over time. It&#8217;s been ten years, so I didn&#8217;t go from 0 to 200. I have it down. I use I, I use Managed WP. It&#8217;s a tool that I&#8217;ve been using since the beginning of time, I feel like, and it is such a great tool for me because I can start my day and is the only person in my business. The first thing I log into every day is Manage WP, and it&#8217;s the last thing I leave at the end of every day because it&#8217;s my control panel for getting to those client sites in a hurry. It also is like, you know, it&#8217;s not just for the client. The client. I love that they trust me to take care of their websites. They are doing me a favor because if they have an emergency, it doesn&#8217;t disrupt my life entirely to help them. Because I have what I need to help them versus leaving it up to them to have a backup. And oops, I figured out I wasn&#8217;t really making backups the whole time. I can&#8217;t tell you how many times that&#8217;s happened.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:22:27&nbsp; Oh, I can imagine. And you&#8217;re also still designing at the same time. So taking on new clients and doing all the work to keep the business going, which is why those habits are so important.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:22:37&nbsp; Yeah, I&#8217;m in a networking group, and I took a couple of years off because my parents passed away and I just got back into it in September. So every Thursday morning I&#8217;m going to an in-person meeting. I have kind of some duties as a person in the group. I meet with other people. It&#8217;s but it brings in a steady flow of business. So yes, it&#8217;s I&#8217;m spinning plates all the time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:23:04&nbsp; What is a habit that you would think would be helpful for people who work alone remotely? Like like me. Right. I&#8217;m in my house 24/7, basically, unless I&#8217;m going out meeting somebody for dinner to go shopping. So I work here. I try to meet people online, have that kind of personal touch here and there. What would your suggestion be for like online networking and things?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:23:26&nbsp; Well, I would, join some online groups, you know, I&#8217;ll mention Admin Bar. That&#8217;s a really good one to get, kind of like a really big, vast. It&#8217;s it&#8217;s huge. Right. But you get a lot of different types of web designers in there to connect with a group like mine. Web Cami Cafe, smaller. Anybody who&#8217;s just starting out is welcome to join.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:23:51&nbsp; But you can also join groups that, are just interests that you have that aren&#8217;t directly web designers, but it might be another tool that you use, like I&#8217;m in the Beaver Builder group, because that&#8217;s the tool that I use, and I, I&#8217;m just interacting with people as important. It&#8217;s actually a line item. It&#8217;s a time block for me to go online and log into all the places I&#8217;m a member of and actually participate and answer a question, or give somebody a like or a heart, and that gets you some exposure. But really, I do think that, networking in your local area because nothing really takes the place of human to human contact. So tonight I was going to a Women in Marketing networking event. It&#8217;s been canceled because we&#8217;re supposed to have severe weather tonight by a little crazy, but getting out of your office and and interacting with people. And even if you&#8217;re an introvert in a small way, it can really just boost your spirits. Like you might dread it before you go. But after it&#8217;s over, I guarantee you you&#8217;ll feel good about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:25:07&nbsp; And Zach mentions don&#8217;t forget Post Status for the events.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:25:09&nbsp; Yes of course Post Status.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:25:12&nbsp; We have lots of good conversations in there too. Of course. Yeah, I think that&#8217;s great. I love, I personally I love getting together with people, even if it&#8217;s online. And one of the things, like one of the ways you and I grew our friendship was I was like, does anybody want a coworker during Covid? And you&#8217;re like, I&#8217;ll do it. And like, that was our first really, like face to face, if you will, even though it was virtual.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:25:32&nbsp; And let&#8217;s just admit we didn&#8217;t work at all.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:25:36&nbsp; No, not at all.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:25:38&nbsp; We didn&#8217;t work at all. And we met, in a WordCamp that was online, fully online. I don&#8217;t remember if it was WordCamp Europe or, but it was fully online. And GoDaddy had me working in their virtual booth, and that&#8217;s how it might have been.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:25:55&nbsp; Might have been Denver, I don&#8217;t know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:25:57&nbsp; Or, San Antonio.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:26:00&nbsp; Oh yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:26:01&nbsp; Yeah, that one was one of the first ones to go online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:26:04&nbsp; Yeah, that could have been. Yeah, for sure. It&#8217;s so hard to remember five years ago. Yeah. And yet and yet it&#8217;s hard to forget five years ago too.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:26:11&nbsp; Yes.I know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:26:12&nbsp; And it&#8217;s funny because I&#8217;ve recently seen these memes like, you know, like five years ago today, which was, you know, on March 13th. And I was like, what happened five years ago today? And then I was like, oh, wait, that was like lockdown.&nbsp; I remember.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:26:23 I, I was flying home, I was visiting my folks in Northern California and I was flying home. And it was surreal because they had just closed down Seattle, like I was coming home and like everything was going to be closed. And, I like they they were spacing people on the airplane. So you weren&#8217;t seated next to people. And that was just bizarre.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:26:47&nbsp; It was so surreal. It felt like ghost towns and like you could walk down the middle of Main Street and like, like an old Western, like draw, you know? Yeah, you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:26:56&nbsp; Did all of it because I, I flew home like 20 times during Covid, and there were times when you would get off the plane at the airport. There was nobody there. Everything was closed. It was just like, walk right through it is. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:27:10&nbsp; Really insane for sure. Anybody in the in the who&#8217;s watching right now, do you have a web habit that you&#8217;ve developed as a web designer or agency owner, or just in business in general that you think you&#8217;d like to share? Maybe Cami will put it in one of her newsletters. I mean, with your permission, of course.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara: Yes, of course.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: Because I I&#8217;d love to hear what some people have. So get typing in those comments, we want to hear what some of your habits are. I right now am laid off from a full time job, and one of the things that I have been maintaining as a habit is getting up every day and coming to my desk and doing something at my desk that I don&#8217;t break that you know, continuity of sitting at my desk and doing work. And so I, with the exception of one day that I took off to do something else, but family oriented. But I sit here every day. Some days I&#8217;m done at two. Some days I&#8217;m done at seven. It depends on what I&#8217;m working on and what meetings I have and those kinds of things. But it is actually pretty exciting to think about continuity that way. And so even if you aren&#8217;t working full time or you have a day that you, you know, you don&#8217;t have other, obligations getting up and sitting at your desk and, you know, making that commute down the hall, as I always say, I think is another habit to really be in. So, oh, here we go. Anne Mary says she learned from you to check email three times a day. Because checking emails constantly is a really bad habit of hers. Which, yeah, for sure, I&#8217;m. I have my phone in my pocket all the time, so I try to set it aside with notifications off when I&#8217;m at my desk, because otherwise I will react to every notification. So 100%, that is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:28:56&nbsp; Yeah. That&#8217;s one of the habits that is never going to be an autopilot for me. I, I have to fight my urge to check my email all day to get that done. And I&#8217;ve even put a tab on my Gmail that is called focus. It&#8217;s like an empty inbox that I.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:29:15&nbsp; Yeah?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:29:15&nbsp; I put that up so I&#8217;m not looking when I shouldn&#8217;t.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:29:19&nbsp; Yeah. Nope. I get that, Zach has one too. I set aside time to learn, time to create, time to focus on getting work done and time to handle operations every day. It sounds like that time blocking you were talking about whether it&#8217;s the same time every day, just making sure that you&#8217;re hitting all those marks and continuing moving everything forward in a regular fashion. I think that&#8217;s a great idea, Zach, for sure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:29:41&nbsp; Yeah, I, I totally agree with Zach. I even have like, my wake up block at the beginning of my day. And and it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s like it&#8217;s for me to wake up, shower, exercise, and I put whatever. So if one day I don&#8217;t want to wake up and I just want to sleep until, you know, 7:30 or whatever, I can. It never happens. But I could like, you know, my time block. I would allow it. It&#8217;s flexible. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:30:10&nbsp; Yeah, yeah, for sure. I, I, I made a decision earlier this week that made me so happy and that, like, my calendly links have been set from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., and I hate 9:00 meetings. So I was like, why do I have that on my calendar then? So I went in and changed my calendly to start at ten in the morning instead, because I it&#8217;s my calendar, I can do what I want with it. So if I don&#8217;t want 9:00 meetings, I don&#8217;t have to have a 9:00 meeting. And it&#8217;s like, why did I not think of that before? Like, how silly, right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:30:43&nbsp; Yeah, I, I use the time blocking in two ways. I&#8217;m, I&#8217;m blocking the time that, that I need to work and I&#8217;m available for appointments. And over the years I have really shrunk those hours that I&#8217;m available for appointments down to. I think it&#8217;s about 6.5 hours a week now. That&#8217;s it. And, but if I don&#8217;t do that, then I am working constantly on weekends and after hours because I don&#8217;t have enough time in my day.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:31:13&nbsp; So Zach doesn&#8217;t start appointments till 11 because this morning are for creativity, which I think is perfect. Yeah. So I know go ahead.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:31:22&nbsp; Another another way to do that is to make one day all appointments, and I do that as well. And it&#8217;s exhausting, but it kind of frees up the other days for me to not have me. Yeah, all of them. You know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:31:35&nbsp; Sometimes it&#8217;s hard. So like, this month I&#8217;ve been doing all of these, like over 50, 5 minute interviews with women all over the world. And so I&#8217;ve had my calendar running from anywhere from nine in the morning until 7 or 8:00 at night, because I&#8217;ve been interviewing with women from Uganda and with women from Asia and women from Australia, and like complete opposite timezones of me. So I&#8217;ve tried to be a little more, gracious with the time available to make sure that I can represent women all over the world, and not just in my convenient to my convenience. Right? So, so sometimes, sometimes it&#8217;s a little more challenging for sure, but that&#8217;s finite, right? So that&#8217;s not going to go on forever. And no. And and so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:32:16&nbsp; You have to have flexibility because we all have those things. We have those clients that can&#8217;t meet during the times we&#8217;re available. So we&#8217;re not going to say, I can&#8217;t meet with you ever. You&#8217;re going to adjust, and then you steal that time from wherever you took it from. So if a client enters something that is supposed to be work time for me, I&#8217;m going to reach out in the future and and close off meeting time to make up for it. So yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:32:44&nbsp; And I have so I have my regular Calendly slots available. And I have a secret calendar that somebody is on the other side of the world are like, oh, I can&#8217;t make any of those times.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:32:53&nbsp; I&#8217;ll be like, well, this calendar work for you? And it&#8217;s got more expensive, but it isn&#8217;t available to everybody all the time. So I try to yeah, little little tricks that kind of work for me here and there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:33:02&nbsp; Yeah. The Calendly secret meeting is fantastic.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:33:06&nbsp; Yeah it is. And Ann Marie says she blocks off Fridays. No meetings that day. It is freeing. Absolutely. For sure. Zach, are you the Zach that joined the. Oh, I guess we don&#8217;t need to put that up there. You can just respond to that one. Claudia says she has a secret scheduler too. Very helpful. Absolutely. And it feels almost clandestine. Right. Like you&#8217;ve got this. Like, nobody knows about this unless I bring them into the fold.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:33:34&nbsp; I feel a new habit coming along right here. I think that that would be a great I mean, you know, think about yourself as a web designer. And you&#8217;re just starting out, and a lot of these things, like setting up secret meetings and stuff, these are things we learn over time, right? Like, I didn&#8217;t always have the secret meeting thing. And then once I started using Calendly more, you know, on the regular backup, it&#8217;s been 5 or 6 years or something way before Covid. But it just really was like, wow, this is cool. You know, I like, I like, had a calendar for happy hours. Oh, yeah. You know, before Covid.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:34:17&nbsp; Sure. Yeah. And I&#8217;ve learned, like, I for my WPCoffeeTalk. I have only one evening and and Saturday is available. And if I know I want to sleep in on a certain Saturday, I just block that day on my calendar. I just want block and then people can&#8217;t schedule for that week, but for that week. And it doesn&#8217;t have to be right away. People can schedule for next month or, you know, a few weeks out or that kind of thing. So I&#8217;m not. Nothing is urgent when you&#8217;re recording a podcast.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:34:43&nbsp; Yeah. And and that&#8217;s the other thing about scheduling, like online scheduling, is I usually make sure there&#8217;s like a 12 hour buffer between when somebody can book with me so I don&#8217;t get a, you know, I might start my when I start my day, I know what my schedule is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:34:59&nbsp; I don&#8217;t want people to just be hopping in there in turn, like a one meeting day into a five meeting day all of the sudden.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:35:07&nbsp; Yeah. Zach says he also has a schedule that isn&#8217;t as lockdown for VIPs. I&#8217;m assuming. Zach, that&#8217;s the link you give me? Just asking. can I give you another habit I developed this year?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:35:19&nbsp; Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:35:20&nbsp; Which is I mostly travel for business to this point and occasionally for fun. I actually have a whole kit of things that I keep in my suitcase. Duplicates of things like I have, you know, my toiletries bag. And I have duplicate minis of all the toiletries so I don&#8217;t have to take things from my bathroom and push back and forth. So I keep that in there. I keep a little, extension cord in there, and I keep my international plugs in there so that an extra watch charger, like all of the things, extra phone charger, so that I don&#8217;t have to make that list every time I travel. I have all those regulars already in the suitcase.&nbsp; All I really have to do is anything specific to that trip and my clothes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:36:03&nbsp; Oh, that&#8217;s a great idea.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:36:06&nbsp; It&#8217;s a huge time saver, huge time saver. And it saves me from forgetting things like Tylenol or, you know, those kinds of things because it I I&#8217;ve arrived places before with a horrible headache and don&#8217;t have any Tylenol with me. And then I have to go in search of in a foreign city that I don&#8217;t know, and find some Tylenol or pay at the airport ten times what Tylenol costs, you know, those kinds of things. So yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:36:32&nbsp; Yeah, travel hacks, that&#8217;s a whole nother that other a lot of great, great tips for that. When I was going to California a lot, to see my folks, I had like a hanging toiletry bag. And in the morning when I was getting ready, that&#8217;s when I was packing it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:36:49&nbsp; So, yeah, that&#8217;s a good idea too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:36:50&nbsp; That was kind of a nice, streamlined, streamlined way to take care of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:36:56&nbsp; Absolutely. But I have just purchased extra plug, you know, power strips and things that I can plug all my things into for charging overnight in a hotel room. I have enough of those that I keep one in the suitcase, so it just makes me happy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:37:09&nbsp; Well, I know when I see you in Arizona in about 3 or 4 weeks that, that&#8217;s going to be how you&#8217;re rolling in. All right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:37:17&nbsp; Exactly. All ready ready. That&#8217;s right. So. Oh, and Zach says, you know that his camera bag is go ready at all times, as is mine. Zach, I made the mistake once of not charging batteries, and I got an hour and a half away, and I had no batteries charged, and I was like, well, it&#8217;s a pretty drive, but the birds aren&#8217;t going to be photographed today because I forgot to charge things. So. Yeah. Claudia has a bag of stuff in the car all the time. Yeah, I have a little purse.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:37:43&nbsp; Good idea.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:37:44&nbsp; A little mini pair of sewing scissors in my car. Because, like, when I get a Starbucks or something, the hole is never big enough to actually, like, drink through. You know how, like, you have to have that second hole. Yeah. So I&#8217;m like, poke it through with an extra pair of scissors, because I made the mistake of using a pen once and ended up with ink in my coffee, which I don&#8217;t recommend to anybody. But yeah, if lip balm in my car I have that. I have a nail file and clippers and things that you wish you had when you suddenly go broke a nail. What am I going to do now? You know, kinds of things. So great advice. All great advice though. Oh, I love it. All the tips and tricks from people in the in the comments too, any last minute before we start to wrap things up here, folks, if you&#8217;ve got any other ideas, throw them in there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:38:25&nbsp; Also, if you have any questions, you know, we want to, we want to hear them. Please put those in the comments as well. If you have a question for Cami or me, panic-mode is the go to before travels. Yeah, I&#8217;m a last minute packer, which is also why I have those things packed in advance. Because otherwise I&#8217;d be like, oh, I forgot my toothpaste and oh, where&#8217;s my toothbrush and all those things. So I just have. I mean, you can own more than one toothbrush. Did you know that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:38:56&nbsp; Yeah. I will get my I will get my suitcase out a few days early and just start throwing things at it. It&#8217;s not packed, but it&#8217;s a pile. And I just. Then, then the night before. That way, if I&#8217;m doing laundry, I can just. Put tuff in there. Yeah. Fold it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:39:14&nbsp; Yeah. Anker makes a USB-C charger hub that can charge up to four devices, including a laptop. Oh, that&#8217;s a great idea. I had something like that, and it got confiscated in Seoul, so I lost that. It was in my suitcase. They told me I could go all the way down to baggage claim and back up through security. Or I could toss that $30 charger. And I said, go ahead and throw it away. So, yeah, don&#8217;t. That&#8217;s another thing. Don&#8217;t pack things in your suitcase that can&#8217;t travel. Good advice. yeah. Any last minute thoughts Cami anything that you wished I&#8217;d asked you or that you want to share.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:39:50&nbsp; You know, I just believe that if you can make a tiny change every day and it helps you run your business better, that, you know, that is sometimes we just get so bogged down with what we should be doing or, you know, maybe we want to make a change and it seems too daunting and just breaking things down into tiny little, increments that you can deal with. And that goes for like a task, like a redesign.&nbsp; If you&#8217;re feeling overwhelmed, just do one little thing. If you only work on it for 30 minutes today, consider it a win. So celebrate all the little things that you do</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:40:30&nbsp; Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:40:30&nbsp; That makes a difference and help you make it through your day. So often we just don&#8217;t give ourselves enough credit and can be too critical of ourselves and how our day goes. Nobody has a perfect day, you know? Maybe. I mean, and if you have one, you&#8217;re not going to have one the next day. Right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:40:50&nbsp; That&#8217;s true. You seldom get two in a row.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:40:52&nbsp; That&#8217;s. Yeah. You seldom get two in a row and just, you know, whatever you do, some days if you have a bad day, you know, maybe you needed the day off. And just in that instance, you&#8217;re taking care of yourself. And that&#8217;s a good day.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:41:07&nbsp; Absolutely. Do you have your, your celebration jar there on your desk still?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:41:11&nbsp; So I do, but I emptied it today because it got so. It got so full then.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette: Oh that&#8217;s awesome.&nbsp;</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara: I had yeah like it got really full. But yes, I put little post-it notes in here with what I accomplished. Just one little task at a time and I keep it. Normally I empty it on Friday, but I&#8217;ve been, I&#8217;ve been go I, I kind of worked a little on Sunday, so. Got full early.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:41:36&nbsp; Yeah. Zach says the best process for writing down your systems is to have the people doing the work write the SOP. Yeah, that&#8217;s true too. Absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:41:46&nbsp; Well, that would be me I the person.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:41:49&nbsp; Yeah, a lot of us, it&#8217;s just ourselves for sure. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:41:52&nbsp; But yes, I do agree that, like, having those things written down that you do is just a fantastic way to kind of map out what, what you going on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:42:03&nbsp; And they&#8217;re all written down at WebDesignerHabits.com. How is that for a Segway? That was pretty cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:42:08&nbsp; That was pretty awesome. Thank you Michelle.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:42:11&nbsp; You&#8217;re welcome. It is free to sign up for this newsletter. It is free to join Cami’&#8217;s Facebook group. If you are interested in learning more WebDesignerHabits.com, we&#8217;ll get you all the stuff to sign up for that newsletter. It is a treat. I read it&#8217;s the one one of the only three newsletters that I read top to bottom every week.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:42:31&nbsp; So thank you, thank you. You know, it isn&#8217;t complex. It&#8217;s just like one thing. I don&#8217;t look it up a whole bunch of other things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:42:38&nbsp; I mean, that makes it easy to read, right? So it&#8217;s easy to consume for sure, which has one of the reasons I love it. And if it doesn&#8217;t apply to me, that&#8217;s okay. I still learn something. and if it does, great. Yeah. So like, I don&#8217;t have a lot of clients, so I&#8217;m not writing newsletters to clients, but, but I do a newsletter for Post Status and, you know, staying on track for that and all the things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:42:58&nbsp; So anyway, so thank you, Web Cami for joining me today.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:43:03&nbsp; Thank you. Thank you for having me, Michelle, I really appreciate I appreciate it and I so appreciate you in our community, you know, you are the glue that keeps the WordPress community together.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:43:15&nbsp; I try, I do what I can to try to help others along the way and to create a happy place. So thank you. Everybody else, I&#8217;m working on my, my, guest for next week. It most likely will be Roger from Kinston, so I&#8217;m not going to put that in writing, but we&#8217;re working on some details. If not, then I&#8217;ll have somebody else and that will be upcoming. But if you have something you want to talk about, a project that you want to share, get in touch with me. Maybe you can be on the next Post Status Happiness Hour. So thank you everybody who&#8217;s been here all day chatting with us or for the hour chatting with us and really appreciate all of you. And, again, Cami thank you. I appreciate your time today, too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:43:58&nbsp; Yeah. Thanks for having me. And I really enjoyed meeting everyone and reading all your comments.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Michelle Frechette 00:44:05&nbsp; The comments were great. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Awesome. All right. We&#8217;ll see everybody next week.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cami MacNamara 00:44:11&nbsp; Bye.</p>\n<p>This article, <a href="https://poststatus.com/post-status-happiness-hour-session-twenty-three/">Post Status Happiness Hour Session Twenty Three</a>, was published at  <a href="https://poststatus.com">Post Status</a> — the community for WordPress professionals.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 17 Apr 2025 21:30:27 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13:"Olivia Bisset";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Post Status: Agency News Weekly";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://poststatus.com/?p=163362";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:53:"https://poststatus.com/agency-news-weekly-2025-03-31/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5067:"<h2 class="gb-headline gb-headline-930042ec gb-headline-text">Web Agency Summit is Next Week</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class="wp-block-list">\n<li>Atarim and Omnisend are presenting a free online <a href="https://atarim.io/summit/">Web Agency Summit</a> next week, April 7-11.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The event will share strategies for web agencies to adapt, scale, and thrive amidst AI and digital innovation.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>More than 12,000 attendees are expected for the more than 50 sessions led by expert presenters.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href="https://atarim.io/summit/#ticket"><strong>Sign up to attend here</strong></a>. 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The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, why open standards matter, and how WordPress fits into an open web.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:00:53] Nathan Wrigley: If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have Aaron D. Campbell.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Aaron is an international speaker, open source advocate, and self-described outgoing introvert. He&#8217;s been a regular contributor to WordPress for more than a decade, and is currently director of product at A2 Hosting. His longstanding enthusiasm for WordPress stems from its role as a necessary counterbalance to closed web solutions, providing a vital, open source, alternative that fosters accountability among digital platforms. Aaron&#8217;s vision of WordPress&#8217;s importance has fueled his sustained commitment, and excitement for the platform matching his initial zeal from years ago.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today we talk about a topic that&#8217;s integral to Aaron, and likely resonates with many of you listeners, the importance of the open web. With the advent of closed platforms, open standards and open source have become more crucial than ever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Aaron shares his journey in the WordPress space, and how his commitment to the open web has kept him passionate about it over the years. We discussed the evolution of open web concepts, maintaining interoperability, and ensuring your digital creations remain under your control.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We compare this with the growing dominance of closed corporate platforms, and examine the impact of profit motives versus the more altruistic goals of open source. Aaron articulates why preserving the openness of the web is essential, not just for innovation, but for the entire fabric of global society.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re curious about the role of open systems and the future they shape and why the open web matters now more than ever, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Aaron D. Campbell.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast by Aaron D. Campbell. Hello, Aaron.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:13] Aaron D. Campbell: Hey, thanks for having me.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:14] Nathan Wrigley: Well, I&#8217;m really pleased to talk to you today. This is a subject which is fairly close to my heart. We&#8217;re going to approach it, first of all, from the non WordPress angle, and then we&#8217;ll get into it from the WordPress angle. It&#8217;s all about open standards, open source.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I guess before we begin, Aaron, I&#8217;ll just explain that this is the first interview that I&#8217;ve done at WordCamp Asia, which is in Manila. How are you finding it here? Did you have a nice journey over.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:36] Aaron D. Campbell: You know, my journey over was smooth and uneventful, which is exactly how I like my journeys to these things to be. And I&#8217;m finding the place to be fantastic, and the time zone change to be very difficult.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:48] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that&#8217;s exactly my experience as well. I think we&#8217;re both fairly tired at this point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s the first day, it&#8217;s Contributor Day, so there&#8217;ll be all of that excitement later. Aaron&#8217;s doing a presentation at WordCamp Asia, and this is what we&#8217;re going to talk about. It&#8217;s called The Future, why Open Web Matters.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Before we get into that, Aaron, do you just want to give us your little potted bio? Tell us why you are here, who you work for, what it is that you do in the WordPress space.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:13] Aaron D. Campbell: Sure, yeah. What do I do in the WordPress space? Well, that has changed a lot over the years, but I&#8217;ve been pretty actively contributing to the WordPress project for about 18 or so years now. Done everything from leading releases and leading the security team to helping put on some of these events like WordCamp US. I work for A2 Hosting, focusing on our products and helping to align what we do with the kind of open web, WordPress ethos that I have at my core.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:44] Nathan Wrigley: Can I just ask you, if you&#8217;ve been in the project for as long as you have, which is pretty much the length of the whole project, I think, 18 years or so. But basically you&#8217;ve been in it since the beginning. So it&#8217;s nothing to do with the topic at hand. Are you as excited about WordPress as a thing in 2025 as you were all those years ago?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:04] Aaron D. Campbell: Yes. Yes I am. I think that the thing that has kept me around this long, it&#8217;s not easy to do a thing for, you know, going on almost 20 years and to stay excited about it. But I think that the thing that has kept me there is this whole open web concept, and that I see WordPress as a very important counterbalance to some of the closed solutions that exist on the web.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Having a viable alternative that is open helps keep those other platforms accountable, if you will. And so I think that what&#8217;s kept me around is really that kind of idealistic thing that I have around how important WordPress is. And so, yes, I&#8217;m just as excited about it as I was back then.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:47] Nathan Wrigley: It feels like, if we were to rewind the clock 18 years ago, it feels like open was more normal, perhaps than it is now. And I think the closed platforms have monetised their way into the web and have kind of become, in many ways, the default, especially for people who aren&#8217;t in the inner circle of open source projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So for example, the way to carry out messaging online is to go to a closed platform. The way to communicate via email is to use close, well, the protocol&#8217;s open, but you know, the system that you might use may be closed, and so on and so forth. So that seems to be the default.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, let me just read the blurb from your presentation so we&#8217;ll get a flavor of what it is that Aaron will be talking about out. So we&#8217;re talking about why the open web matters. And the blurb that went with that goes as follows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The internet has revolutionised how we share information, enabling unprecedented collaboration, and accelerating human progress in ways once unimaginable. However, this powerful tool is now at a crossroads. In this talk, Aaron will explore the critical role that open systems and the open web play in shaping our future. He will delve into the potential consequences of a closed digital ecosystem, and argue why preserving the openness of the web is essential, not only for innovation, but the very fabric of our global society. Discover why the open web matters more now than ever, and what&#8217;s at stake if we lose it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there&#8217;s some fairly powerful words in there, you know, the future of society and so on. However, underpinning it all is this phrase, open web. And it occurs to me that, dear listener, you may not know what that means. So my opening gambit to you Aaron, what is the open web? What does that even mean?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:07:20] Aaron D. Campbell: Honestly, you were talking a little bit about how we see more of these closed platforms now, and maybe it was more the standard 18, 20 years ago, and it&#8217;s true. When the web started around 1991, it was open in that information flowed easily and freely back and forth. And the things that we used to interact with the web, HTTP, HTML, all these things that we use were these open standards that could be implemented by anyone. You could implement them in some sort of closed web browser. You could implement them in an open source web browser. Either way, they were open standards that you could implement.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think that that, where we started is kind of the core of this open that I&#8217;m talking about. It&#8217;s the interoperability, the ability for things to work together for different companies to be able to give you that same experience that you might want to have with their flavor. But if you then choose to leave that company, you can go somewhere else and still have whatever it is that you built, or created, or were using.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so open, while I love open source and a lot of what I do is around open source, I don&#8217;t think that open source in and of itself is the open web. It&#8217;s more about this freedom to be able to own your stuff and take it wherever you want to take it. It&#8217;s that interoperability that&#8217;s really at the core of open when I&#8217;m talking about the open web.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:48] Nathan Wrigley: So it&#8217;s kind of the ability to pick up your data from one spot. Let&#8217;s say that you&#8217;ve got, well, in the case of WordPress, you&#8217;ve got a blog, you&#8217;ve got content that you&#8217;ve created, text, images and so on. The ability to say, you know what? I&#8217;m fed up with my CMS of choice. I want to move it elsewhere.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the same would be the case for, okay, I&#8217;ve got a bunch of messages that I&#8217;ve written to some clients and to some friends. I want to be able to drop that platform and move it over here. So I guess email might be a good example there. You know, there&#8217;s the protocol behind the email, that&#8217;s completely open. It would be crazy if you could only email people who are using the same service that you had. And so you can move providers all the time, but you may not be able to move your email address. So it&#8217;s a sort of complicated picture, but transportability, yeah. Is that possibly it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:30] Aaron D. Campbell: Yeah. I think that your example of, I&#8217;m fed up with my CMS, so I want to go somewhere else. That&#8217;s valid, I guess. But I look at it more from, let&#8217;s say that you&#8217;re a company that sells leather goods, and wherever you have your website has decided that they no longer allow you to sell leather goods on their platform.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You need to go somewhere else for your own livelihood. You need to be able to go somewhere else. Can you? And if your site is WordPress, and it&#8217;s your host that says, we no longer allow leather goods, you can just move somewhere else. But if your site is on Facebook, and Facebook says that you can&#8217;t do that anymore, you can&#8217;t just take what you have and move somewhere else.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that&#8217;s a big difference because that&#8217;s a thing that is key to you continuing to, you know, I don&#8217;t know, run your business, make your money, put food on your table. And so it&#8217;s not just like, I got sick of this tool and wanted to move to another one. I think that part of it is like, who has control, and what are your options if what they want no longer aligns with what you want?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:36] Nathan Wrigley: So it really boils down, in your case, to the ability for you to choose where things end. Yeah, choice. A choice. Okay.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I really haven&#8217;t ever read a history of the internet, but the bits and pieces, the impression that I&#8217;ve got over the years when I&#8217;ve been reading around how the internet began, CERN and ARPANET and those kind of things. When the internet began, I don&#8217;t really know what the enterprise was to begin the whole thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it felt like it was more or less a service to provide the capability for academics to communicate with each other. There was never this intention that, okay, we&#8217;ll be buying and selling goods online. We&#8217;ll all be communicating through messaging platforms online. We&#8217;ll be sending photos online. So how did the internet begin? Do you know?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:11:20] Aaron D. Campbell: It began open and it began specifically for the purposes of sharing information. The commercial internet exchange was trying to connect all these big networks that had tons of information in them at places like universities, governmental agencies, right? That were these silos of information.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They wanted to interconnect those networks, make the internet, be able to share data back and forth for the purposes of being able to learn from each other. It was very much an academic pursuit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that that&#8217;s kind of how we grow our knowledge as people, right? We learn from what other people have learned, and then we learn some more on top of that. And they saw the value of having this kind of connected digital network to share information. And it was only useful if it was open, and that information could flow back and forth freely. And so, yes, you&#8217;re right, it wasn&#8217;t meant to be a commercial endeavor. It was meant to be a knowledge sharing endeavor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:18] Nathan Wrigley: It&#8217;s kind of a really altruistic enterprise when you say it in those terms. It really feels like it&#8217;s for the betterment of humanity. But I&#8217;m sure all of us can imagine scenarios where we think about our use of the internet, and the words, betterment of humanity are just not, well, they&#8217;re just an anathema.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because, you know, the internet has undoubtedly caused harms in various ways, and there&#8217;s misinformation being spread and all sorts of things like that, problems that we&#8217;ve got online.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I&#8217;m wondering, well, if we were talking about open on all levels of the internet, so for example, the internet that I&#8217;m using, I&#8217;m using a CMS, a web browser. It&#8217;s HTTPS, CSS, JavaScript, those kind of things. But underpinning it all, here&#8217;s my Mac, and the Mac presumably talks to the TCP IP stack, and there&#8217;s a bunch of routers and all of those kind of things going on, holding the internet together. Does all of that stack need to be open, or is it okay for some bits and pieces holding the infrastructure together to be closed?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because I&#8217;m not sure that you&#8217;d kind of want the hardware layer, if you know what I mean, some of those bits and pieces. Maybe they need to be, well, maybe they need to be proprietary and closed. I don&#8217;t know. What are your thoughts?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:27] Aaron D. Campbell: That&#8217;s a really intriguing question, and I think that for the purposes of just being able to use and enjoy and leverage the internet, no, all those layers do not need to be open. For the purposes of preserving the internet as this information sharing kind of altruistic tool, I think that there needs to be openness at every one of those levels.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that, for example, you were talking about the routers that shift all the information around, and they&#8217;re largely these hardware things, although they do have some software on them. But do all of those need to be open? No. But if one company is the only one that&#8217;s capable of shifting information around the web, then it becomes a problem. So as long as there are viable open alternatives, and some are closed and some are open, great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I don&#8217;t want any company, no matter who it is, you know, in this case maybe a, Cisco is maybe the biggest router company, right? I don&#8217;t want them to be the only one in control of what information can be sent back and forth across the world.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:31] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I think our conversation is probably going to dwell on the information layer, the bit at the top. So the text that we send and, you know, the images, and the CMS and so on. Now, in the beginning of your presentation, there was a phrase which stuck out because you said, we&#8217;re in a time of unprecedented collaboration, and accelerating human progress is what the internet is kind of all about. It&#8217;s a fairly lofty phrase and I was wondering what you meant by that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:59] Aaron D. Campbell: So first of all, the internet allows for a kind of collaboration that we&#8217;ve never seen before in history, right? Like, collaboration, we all hop on these Zoom calls all the time and think nothing of the fact that I am in an instant virtual video call with people in eight different countries. But that&#8217;s possible. I literally do that almost every single day. People on my team are in the UK, they&#8217;re in Bulgaria, that&#8217;s normal. That was not normal 20 years ago. It was certainly not normal, I guess, what, 40 years ago, pre-internet.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There is a level of collaboration that can happen now that just never was able to before. And we see that in tons of places. My wife&#8217;s neurologist, I think I gave you this example in some notes that I sent over. She collaborates with neurologists all over the world, live, almost daily. And that&#8217;s mind boggling. But the fact that a neurologist can immediately learn from other specialists, like that is fantastic. That&#8217;s so amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so, yeah, it sounds lofty when you put it into words, but the truth is, this is our normal every day, and maybe we&#8217;ve gotten a little used to it. But if you take a step back and look, it&#8217;s amazing what the internet has enabled.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:22] Nathan Wrigley: I occasionally, and it really is an example of how quickly you can become, something that is extraordinary becomes completely normal, and you don&#8217;t really expect what&#8217;s going on. But occasionally I have the thought that, I&#8217;ll be looking at my computer, on my phone, and I think what I&#8217;m doing, to my 10-year-old self, was the realm of Star Trek. It was science fiction that there was a device in somebody&#8217;s hand which enabled you to communicate.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There was a screen which held images on it, and it was all encapsulated in your hand, you know? And obviously Star Trek, well, we&#8217;ve still got a long way to go. We can&#8217;t transport each other across the universe and so on. But it&#8217;s incredibly profound. And the mere fact, just take a look and think about it for a moment. You&#8217;re probably listening to this on a phone, dear listener, and I don&#8217;t know, you&#8217;ve probably got a pair of Bluetooth headphones or something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This incredible stack of technology, which is now completely normal. You and I collaborating for this episode on a Google Doc. The world has utterly changed, and it really does behoove everyone, once in a while, to take a step back and think, wow, I&#8217;m really lucky.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:31] Aaron D. Campbell: I mean, when I was in school, my teacher very specifically would not let us use calculators on tests because, quote, you will not always have a calculator in your pocket. You need to know how to do this. Well, they were wrong. I have a calculator in my pocket, which is actually also a computer connected to every other computer in the world. It&#8217;s astounding how much things have changed.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:56] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it&#8217;s pretty remarkable. I mean, I guess the next point that I want to raise is that the web, despite the fact that it&#8217;s marvelous in all these ways that we&#8217;ve just described, I think it&#8217;s, well, we&#8217;ve had an era over the last, let&#8217;s say, decade, maybe more, where it feels like the internet has been taken over largely by closed corporate platforms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I mean, not to throw any aspersions out there, and not to name only these ones, but the ones which come to mind in my life are Google, dominating search, for example. You know, I basically have outsourced my brain most of the time to Google. I don&#8217;t really think I just Google something, and then trust that what Google gives me back is going to be credible and accurate. And I really give it a hundred percent of that. You know, I don&#8217;t question what it gives back. I assume that the algorithm is doing me justice and doing me a favor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And equally things like Facebook over the years, I&#8217;ve invested large amounts of time into that. But it feels like in the last year, so we&#8217;re in 2025, most people have got a slightly different relationship. There&#8217;s maybe a bit more skepticism coming in. We can see the harms that maybe some of these companies are doing. And so this really does feel like a moment where open platforms, WordPress in particular, it&#8217;s an important moment to step up. So really there&#8217;s no question there. It&#8217;s more like, do you have any thoughts about proprietary platforms and their growing dominance?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:17] Aaron D. Campbell: Yeah. First of all, I hope that you are right and that in 2025 we&#8217;re seeing some of that, kind of, questioning of whether these closed, for-profit platforms are really doing what&#8217;s best for us. Because I know that they&#8217;re doing what&#8217;s best for them. The question is whether that is also what&#8217;s best for us. Companies like Facebook, like Google, they&#8217;re looking out for themselves. The question is, does that help us?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You&#8217;re right, we&#8217;ve all outsourced our brain to Google in many ways. I mean, when you talk about, I don&#8217;t know, researching a thing, you don&#8217;t even say, I&#8217;m going to go research it. You say, I&#8217;m going to go Google it. That&#8217;s what that means in our vernacular. And I think that, I hope that, people are really starting to realise, not that that&#8217;s bad because I don&#8217;t think it is, I am actually super thankful that Google makes it so easy for me to learn so many things. I love that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I hope that they, everyone&#8217;s starting to understand some of the potential risks there. Is it good that you don&#8217;t even question whether what Google fed back to you is the right thing? Does Google get to decide what we&#8217;re able to learn or not learn now? Is that healthy for us?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I would love if people are asking those kinds of questions, because it pushes toward having more alternatives. How do you go check, if you decide that you&#8217;re not sure if Google&#8217;s really looking out for you, how do you go check that? What do you use to make sure that Google&#8217;s still giving you what you ought to get? And if you go looking for that, that&#8217;s good. Going and looking for those alternatives, ensuring that there is a choice keeps us from being locked in, in a way that becomes unhealthy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:11] Nathan Wrigley: I think my intuition is that increasingly these platforms seem to be tied up in profit motives, and so, the example that comes to mind in my head is the algorithmic feed in your social network of choice, really. Insert whichever platform you want there. But the idea that it will maximize engagement at any cost.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if it can keep your eyes glued to the screen for another minute, that&#8217;s a win, regardless of whether or not that information that&#8217;s being given to you is good. And I&#8217;m doing air quotes. And so if that were to creep into, for example, Google search, okay, can we keep you on our platform? I know that&#8217;s a silly example because that&#8217;s not really the point of Google, but you get the point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And what I&#8217;m wondering is, is profit really kind of the enemy here? Does everything have to be freely done by volunteers for it to be open? Because there&#8217;s this feeling, it feels that there&#8217;s a bit of that in the open source community. You know, if it&#8217;s done by volunteers, if it&#8217;s done for free, if you can access it completely for free, if the platform&#8217;s code is verifiable and open on the web, is that better? So, yeah, sorry there&#8217;s a lot there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:18] Aaron D. Campbell: Well, first of all, I&#8217;ll go ahead and plant my flag on this one. And it&#8217;s maybe not the most popular opinion amongst the hardcore open source people that I honestly spend a lot of time with and work with regularly. But I don&#8217;t think profit is bad. I don&#8217;t. But if that is the core motive and that becomes the only tool that you have is one that is focused on profiting off of you, then yeah, there are concerns.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If Facebook, you&#8217;re right, or any of these social networks, they want to keep you around as long as they can because that&#8217;s their profit model. However, it doesn&#8217;t mean that you can&#8217;t profit off of open, and I am fine with profit as long as there is open. There are many companies in our space that make really good profit implementing WordPress solutions. That is open. The companies that they are implementing those solutions for own their own data. They can move it wherever they want. That&#8217;s great, even if there&#8217;s profit there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I don&#8217;t think that profit alone is the enemy, but it does seem like most of these kind of closed solutions, yeah, are by for profit companies that are just looking to profit. And again, I think it comes down to choice. As long as there are enough options out there, you&#8217;re not beholden to just the one model from the one company. You know, social networks is a good example. If there&#8217;s something that&#8217;s a problem with you and Facebook, you can go to some other social network. There are other options. It&#8217;s when it&#8217;s a for-profit and just one option that it really starts to become a problem.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:03] Nathan Wrigley: I think it&#8217;s really a difficult thread to get right in our community. Because the WordPress community in particular does seem to have two sides. There&#8217;s the real for-profit side, and obviously we&#8217;re here at WordCamp Asia, and if we were to walk into any of the sponsor booths, there&#8217;s a bunch of companies here. And I imagine the fact that they can sponsor, they&#8217;re making a healthy profit. You know, they&#8217;re sending staff here and they&#8217;ve got a booth and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But then there&#8217;s also the more, and again, I&#8217;m doing air quotes here, there&#8217;s the more community side, which seem to see that as a bit of a trade off. We&#8217;ve got to have these people here, but on some level it would be better if they weren&#8217;t here. If we could just do the whole thing more non-profit, that would be better. So I feel that the community we&#8217;ve got, that&#8217;s a difficult tightrope to tread.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:48] Aaron D. Campbell: It&#8217;s a very difficult tightrope to tread. The way that I thread it, I get the altruistic, if we could do everything just volunteer, but we could also have diverse volunteers and many volunteers with different points of view, and different sort of technical backgrounds, right? So that we could build a thing that works for everyone, that would be great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But that&#8217;s really difficult because you see many open source projects that had that and built up and then failed and have sort of disappeared, because it&#8217;s very difficult to have longevity in that. To have people that stay around long enough.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I think that what the for-profit side does in our WordPress space is it helps ensure the longevity because those companies, hosts, for example, are hosting many, many thousands, or tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of WordPress sites, they&#8217;re making money off of that. And so they have a vested interest in making sure that WordPress continues.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so, yeah, there&#8217;s this fine balance between, they&#8217;re actually investing in a way that helps keep the platform going, keep the platform being built, keep the platform improving. But does that also mean that they want some influence in the platform? And I think that that&#8217;s that line you have to tread where profit helps with longevity. It does, it keeps people around. But it also leads towards a desire to influence. And are we watching out for that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It is been a question that the WordPress project has been struggling with since its very beginning. I think that we&#8217;ve got it right at times. I think we&#8217;ve got it wrong at times. But I think that by and large, for 20 plus years, we have successfully brought those two things together, in a way that&#8217;s built something pretty amazing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:39] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. And also if you think about it in the long march of history, the internet is still in its infancy. And these open source platforms, this idea of volunteering your time for a global project is quite a new thing. We are just figuring it out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so whilst you and I are inside the baseball, we hear the arguments from both sides all the time, give it another a hundred years and no doubt things will have bedded down and the arguments would&#8217;ve been done this way and that way, and hopefully things figured out. So to me, it&#8217;s pretty remarkable that we&#8217;ve even got 20 years under our belt. Yeah, there&#8217;s going to be some disagreements along the way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:15] Aaron D. Campbell: The internet sort of, as we know, it&#8217;s about 34 years old. It&#8217;s not been around long when you take a more, sort of, broader historical view alright.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:24] Nathan Wrigley: Over the last period of time, I&#8217;m going to say 12, 15 years, something like that, the internet feels like it&#8217;s become a sort of platform. So a good example of that would be social media, so X, Twitter and all the other ones, LinkedIn, and the multitude of ones that have come in to existence and even gone away in some cases. They&#8217;ve obviously got their proprietary technology stack, but it feels to me what you are proposing is that the internet shouldn&#8217;t be a place of platforms, it should be more a place of protocols. And what I mean by that is the underpinning technology.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So as an example, we could swap out X for something like ActivityPub or the AT Protocol. And then a variety of different platforms can build on top of that, change the UI, change the UX, change the experience for everybody. But we&#8217;d all be able to communicate using that same thing. Have I kind of got that right? Is that what you are hoping for?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:14] Aaron D. Campbell: I would love to see more of the platforms on the internet having open standards, open protocols, open data standards at their core. It would be fantastic if something like Twitter, X, whatever it is now, built on top of an open standard. And that was, like they built their own custom experience on top of it. They brought a lot of people together and gave a good experience, but that you could, other companies could also implement that protocol. And again, then you would have choice and options.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that at its core, like the easiest way to sum this up for somebody experiencing it is that, I really think that lock-in is unhealthy. If you can just choose to go somewhere else and you&#8217;re not locked in, then that company needs to keep you around by just serving you better, having a better experience for you, delivering more value to you. Rather than keeping you around because you&#8217;re locked in, and you&#8217;ve built a following there and you can&#8217;t get it anywhere else, et cetera.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so, yes, I love all these varieties of platforms focusing in on specific things, you know, like LinkedIn on jobs and professional connections. I wish that more of them shared open standards at their core that could be implemented by others.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:35] Nathan Wrigley: Do you think there&#8217;s a realistic chance that these companies will move towards these more open protocols? Because obviously, you know, they weren&#8217;t, they weren&#8217;t there at the beginning. They developed their own code base and soon discovered, gosh, there&#8217;s a real economic lever here. If we can keep eyeballs on our platform, if we can lock data inside the platform so that they can&#8217;t go away, you know, users of LinkedIn, it&#8217;s just, you&#8217;re in LinkedIn, you can&#8217;t get stuff out of LinkedIn, it&#8217;s in there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Is there any incentive for them to move to an open protocol? Apart from the fact that it&#8217;s just a morally good position to be in. Because it feels like if we were talking to the executives of LinkedIn, Facebook, et cetera, they would maybe make the right noises, but then they turn around and say, huh, we&#8217;re not going anywhere near that. We want to lock people in. We want everybody to be locked inside our silo.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:21] Aaron D. Campbell: Unfortunately, I think that there&#8217;s not a lot of, there&#8217;s not a good enough reason yet for them to move that way. So I don&#8217;t see a lot of the current platforms moving that way, at least not in the short term. I hope that some of these new platforms that are spinning up now, and that will in the near future, that might make use of that. We might be able to see new ones coming on with open standards, but I think it&#8217;s less likely to see existing ones move to that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If I were talking to those executives though, and trying to talk about what the benefits would be to them, I think that the main things that I would try to focus on is, if there&#8217;s a chunk of your code, your system that many people are working on and improving, and you don&#8217;t have to fund every single worker on it, that there can be shared benefit from that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I talk about this with WordPress and hosts all the time. Yeah, build some of your own custom cool stuff on top of WordPress, but also help improve WordPress itself. Yes, that improves it, the experience at other hosts as well. But if every host is doing that, then everyone&#8217;s getting shared benefit as WordPress gets better across the board. And so these existing platforms could benefit from that, not having to be the only one working on improving the protocols or whatever it is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the other thing is, if you are really confident that you&#8217;re building something great, if you really think you have a great product, then if you have shared protocols, that means you should be able to bring people in from those other companies that have those shared protocols. Because it means it&#8217;s easier to bring people from other places to you. They all tend to focus on the, saving what we have, preventing people from leaving. But if you really think that you can offer the best, then you can also win people in that way. And that&#8217;s sort of the approach that I take when I talk to them, but it&#8217;s difficult.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:22] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I wonder what the age demographic of these debates is. And what I mean by that is, when it comes to events like WordCamps, if I&#8217;m looking around and being honest, I&#8217;m not really seeing many young people. And I don&#8217;t really know what I mean by young, but it seems like the average age here is not really anywhere near 18.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I wonder if the ship has sailed in terms of, let&#8217;s take a typical child in the UK, a 16-year-old child, something like that. The excitement is all around things like TikTok and Instagram. I would imagine that the typical 16-year-old doesn&#8217;t even know that there&#8217;s such a thing as an open protocol. It&#8217;s just more, I want to use that service.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I wonder if, well, where we need people to be going with these debates is skewing it more towards young people because they&#8217;re going to be the future. Like you and I, we, well, we&#8217;re a bit older, and we probably understand that a little bit more. I don&#8217;t know where the younger people sit around in all of this, and whether or not their semi addiction to technology is something that we can get in the way of. Or if there&#8217;s an argument to be had, if we need to be going out and talking about these things in schools, encouraging it. Curriculums in colleges and what have you, to be talking about this more.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:30] Aaron D. Campbell: I think that you&#8217;re right, that it skews towards the older crowd a little bit. As a parent, I kind of draw a parallel here, right? You can tell a kid, don&#8217;t touch that it&#8217;s hot, don&#8217;t touch that it&#8217;s hot, don&#8217;t touch that it&#8217;s hot. But it&#8217;s when they touch that and get burned, hopefully not too badly, but that&#8217;s when they&#8217;re like, oh, it&#8217;s hot. I need to pay attention to that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think that that&#8217;s the same kind of struggle that I have conveying this kind of thing to youths right now is. Yeah, they&#8217;re super into all these platforms, but what they haven&#8217;t experienced yet is spending a lot of time building a thing on a platform and then it going away, and them having to start all over.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And people like you and I, people our age, we probably have. We may have experienced that many times over and, sort of, you can tell them what the risks are, but if they haven&#8217;t felt it yet, maybe they don&#8217;t quite get the importance of it. And I wish that there was an easier way to help them learn from my painful experiences rather than make them experience it themselves. But I definitely struggle with figuring out how to properly convey that in a way that they grasp the levity. I do think it&#8217;s important if we can.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:43] Nathan Wrigley: We shared some show notes when we were arranging this episode, and the question that I think hit you, the question that hit home the most was one that I wrote and it went like this. How do we get open, in quotes, to be the default given the market forces that we&#8217;re working against?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so again, the example of Facebook, Google, et cetera. You know, they&#8217;ve got deep pockets, an incredible amount of money to spend on ads. They can occupy all the app stores, and they&#8217;ve got incredible lobby groups and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And you thought, well, I think you thought that that was the question in this interview that was going to be the most interest to you. So how do we get open to be the default given the power of these massive platforms?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:22] Aaron D. Campbell: It&#8217;s so difficult, right? I think that I said that this is the billion dollar question. I think that this is kind of the core of what we need to look at and figure out. And I do think that there are some people in our space, in the open space, but even specifically in WordPress, that are trying to figure this out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress is amazing in that it&#8217;s put together by volunteers all over the world, and there&#8217;s contributors in every walk of life. But it&#8217;s not coordinated in a way that a company like a Google or a Meta or whatever, it can be coordinated to funnel all of their funds together and invest in, whether it&#8217;s lobbying or advertising or whatever it is.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We need to bring all this variety of companies, and people in our space together in a coordinated way like that, and that&#8217;s so much more difficult when each one of these companies is their own entity. But you&#8217;re starting to see some groups like the Scale Consortium, some of the enterprise WordPress agencies in our space have formed this consortium to work together to put out this kind of like enterprise level marketing for WordPress at that level.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I would love to see more of that kind of thing happening. I think that groups working together is kind of our only chance of trying to compete with some of these companies.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:50] Nathan Wrigley: What was the organisation called? The Scale Consortium? Yeah, the Scale Consortium. Okay. And do you have a URL for that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:56] Aaron D. Campbell: I think it&#8217;s scaleconsortium.com.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:59] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, I&#8217;ll include that in the show notes. But is this something that you are involved with personally? Does A2 Hosting, or are you involved?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:06] Aaron D. Campbell: No. So in my past life, I guess, before I really got into hosting, I ran an agency for many years including working in the enterprise space. And so I&#8217;m just still close to a lot of the other agency folks, agencies that are a part of this or people like Crowd Favorite and Human Made and 10up. They&#8217;re forming this Scale Consortium, and it&#8217;s fantastic. I talk to them about it. Every time I can see them and talk to them I want to talk to them about this thing they&#8217;re doing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:32] Nathan Wrigley: It is kind of interesting and it&#8217;s fairly unique, I think, open source. The capacity of rivals, and again, I&#8217;m using air quotes. Yes, we can get together because, well, you know, Microsoft Bing getting together with Google, that seems really strange. I mean, maybe there&#8217;s a few web interoperability things that those companies, those proprietary companies get together on. But you know, they&#8217;re commercial rivals.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But in the WordPress space, that kind of thing&#8217;s possible. And in the open source space, that kind of thing is possible, because it&#8217;s more a case of a rising tide carries all boats. So not a case of, well yeah, we&#8217;ve got to kill the competition, kill the opposition. And that&#8217;s curious. And maybe that is the key to its success.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:08] Aaron D. Campbell: I think that you&#8217;re right about the rising tide lifting all ships. I think that in our space, WordPress especially, we have this amazing like coopetition thing where it&#8217;s cooperative competitors working together. And I think that that&#8217;s because, as long as we grow the open web, as long as we grow the people, the companies, the websites that are building on top of these open platforms, literally the pie is growing. So you don&#8217;t have to take away somebody else&#8217;s slice of the pie. As the pie grows, you can just have more and more and more of the pie.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I think that companies in our space have really realised that. The more that they can get these enterprise level customers be building on us instead of Adobe&#8217;s platform, the more the pie has grown, and their piece of it grows. And so if they all work together, they can grow the pie better. And I think that that&#8217;s, honestly, that just makes it a more friendly, more fun area of the internet to work in.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:10] Nathan Wrigley: Do you think WordPress encapsulates a more or less perfect example of the open web? I mean, obviously we&#8217;ve got our own problems, but generally speaking, would you hold up WordPress as a really fine example of the open web or would you say there&#8217;s, I don&#8217;t know, room for improvement?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:25] Aaron D. Campbell: I think that there&#8217;s always room for improvement. I would hold up WordPress as a pillar of paving the way, right? Like, we&#8217;ve gotten it wrong a number of times, but we have pushed so hard toward building this open platform that really is truly open.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that there are single points of failure and stuff, even in how we have things set up. But by and large, I think we&#8217;ve done it right. I&#8217;m not going to say we&#8217;re perfect. That would be silly, because I think that we should continue to push to grow and improve. And if you think you&#8217;re perfect, you&#8217;re not motivated to do that. But, yeah, I think that we&#8217;ve done a really good job in WordPress of focusing on that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:05] Nathan Wrigley: Well, hopefully people listening to this podcast, by the time this comes out, maybe Aaron&#8217;s talk will be out on WordPress TV. We&#8217;ll have to see. It&#8217;s a really interesting subject. It speaks to so many of the reasons why I enjoy the internet, and why I&#8217;ve skewed towards open source as opposed to proprietary.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s just something profoundly meaningful there for me. And let&#8217;s hope that if we would have this conversation in, oh, I don&#8217;t know, 10 years time or something like that, the arguments that you are portraying here, the powerful reasons for going open and not closed, let&#8217;s hope they win.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:36] Aaron D. Campbell: Let&#8217;s. That&#8217;s one of the most exciting things I could imagine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:39] Nathan Wrigley: Well, Aaron, thank you so much for chatting to me today. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:44] Aaron D. Campbell: Thank you for having me. This was fantastic.</p>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/aaroncampbell/">Aaron D. Campbell</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Aaron is an international speaker, open source advocate, and self-described outgoing introvert. He’s been a regular contributor to WordPress for more than a decade, and is currently Director of Product at <a href="https://www.a2hosting.com/">A2 Hosting</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>His long-standing enthusiasm for WordPress stems from its role as a necessary counterbalance to closed web solutions, providing a vital open-source alternative that fosters accountability among digital platforms. Aaron&#8217;s vision of WordPress&#8217;s importance has fuelled his sustained commitment and excitement for the platform, matching his initial zeal from years ago.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today we talk about a topic that&#8217;s integral to Aaron, and likely resonates with many of you listeners, the importance of the open web. With the advent of closed platforms, open standards, and open source have become more crucial than ever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Aaron shares his journey in the WordPress space, and how his commitment to the open web has kept him passionate about it over the years. We discuss the evolution of open web concepts, maintaining interoperability, and ensuring your digital creations remain under your control.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We compare this with the growing dominance of closed corporate platforms, and examine the impact of profit motives, versus the more altruistic goals of open source. 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-- --------------------------------------------------------

